Controlled Burn - Pic Intensive Post!!

[WDH]

Yeah, can't burn the hardwood hot and fast like this SYP. 

[drobertson]

Made a post about burns a while back and the mention of burning oak stands came up,, it can and has caused the fungus to be among us as mentioned by Danny,, hot burns in oak will do damage, and for the long run, which is not the intended purpose for burns and TSI,, it just takes time, and care through the process..  learned a pile in a short while, and still learning,,

[WDH]

The bark of sapling hardwoods can get damaged by the fire and that becomes an entry point for rot.

[SwampDonkey]

I would not control burn hardwood either. Most of the time if it's a sugar maple stand that isn't thinned too much, it's like park land under it anyway. Some sugar bushes that are thinned hard have beech and ironwood problems, but unless you want to melt your tubing, and harm the maple trees, it's not recommended. :D

[Rocky_Ranger]

Really good to see Rx fire being used, wished we done more of it all across the conifer lands.  TR, was in Texas last week but hung around the Capitol too long to get out in the woods.  Did see the Ladybird Trail and lots of the stuff she done down there.  I am impressed with the history of that fine State............

[CJennings]

That hardwood stand that burned is all large, mature trees, and the understory had no real hardwood regeneration. Just buckthorn, oriental bittersweet, and some other small garbage. If there was any good regeneration it would be a different story. I wouldn't want a fire on my woodlot where I have some nice sugar maple, yellow birch, and red spruce regeneration coming up in the understory.

[Klunker]

the most common eco-system in the midwest was fire dependant. Oak savannas. Now they are very rare. Fire was required to keep tree competition down. White oaks, burr oaks especially are very fire resitant. So the occasional fires either set by indians or thunder storms preserved this ecosystem. Not a very good producer of lumber but a great eco-system for wildlife.

here is a link to some info on oak savannas and fire.

http://www.oaksavannas.org/fire-fuel.html

[curdog]

I've burned hardwood stands before with good results. Two years ago I ran a pretty hot fire through a high graded stand of scarlet, chestnut, white oak it had some shortleaf and pitch pine scattered throughout the stand. The understory was a solid wall of mountain laurel. The mountain laurel was preventing any sunlight from reaching the ground so regeneration was non existent. Now two years later, the oak regeneration responded well to the increased sunlight and the edges of the stand responded well with partridge pea and warm season grasses. The shortleaf saplings were top killed, but re-sprouted from the basal crook, and it removed the Virginia pine from the stand.  I'm pleased, and the landowner is ready to burn again, and was very happy with the improved wildlife habitat and the oak regen.
Not all hardwood stands will benefit from fire, but it definitely has it's place.

[SwampDonkey]

We have shade tolerant hardwood in the forest up here that I've never seen a natural fire in. Any natural fires are in softwood forest. Plus we don't have invasive non native shrubbery out in the forest. I've not seen many tolerant hardwood stands here that don't regenerate after some harvesting. Oak has a hard time surviving sugar maple forest up here, it gets shaded and over topped. It isn't even a significant component of the the forest. I saw someone trying to under plant oak in sugar maple forest one time. The oak are all dead of course from shade, or eaten up by the rabbits. Red spruce and fir are almost shade tolerant enough to grow in a closet. ;D They often are the next stand released from a harvest (overstory removal). Our better aspen are seeded in after a fire, better quality than suckers. When you drive the roads out in Deersdale, most all aspen are along the road side. On private land aspen is about everywhere because of harvesting practices. Where I live at we have not had a forest fire in the area in my lifetime, but there was one in my grandparent's time, but not in hardwood.

[WDH]

Well, it is time again to burn.  Will start tomorrow. 

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

If you're gonna do anything tomorrow let a fire be in the equation.
Gonna be cold Danny!
,

[Texas Ranger]

Burned a lot, back in the day.  The most productive tool for a land owner, they can see almost immediate results.  That and I loved to burn, till the year when insurance went out of sight.

[coxy]

wish they allowed burning here in NY  :(

[DanG]

A dozer showed up last week and plowed a fire line around the woods behind my house. I was very pleased to see it.  The owner has always burned it every other year but he passed away unexpectedly last year, leaving the land to his 21 year-old son. Everyone had wondered how this was going to play out but the young man has surprised everybody by making some significant upgrades to the place. It is exciting to me to see that he will continue the good stewardship that his Father always practiced.  8)

[WDH]

Dan,

Nice to see the Son carrying on.

Burning did not go particularly well today.  Only got about half done what I wanted to get done because the wind laid down and there was a heavy frost last night which made the fuel damper for a longer period of the day.  The lack of wind did not carry the fire as well as I would have liked.  Going to try again on Wednesday.  A few areas did real well.  A couple of pics:

[SwampDonkey]

Good thing about those pine is there is no ladder of green limbs for the fire to climb into a big crown fire ball.  ;D

This must be the field site, and I can imagine unwanted vegetation taken a hold under those open pines.

Maybe some day they'll let forestry manage those California forests, to reduce potential wildfires. ;)

[WDH]

Yes, A 29 year old, old (Tom) field plantation.  Will be 3rd thinned this Spring.

Herbaceous plants, forbs, and grasses as well as tender young hardwood shoots will come back in this Spring, and the deer and turkey love it. 

[LaneC]

    What age would you recommend the trees to be before burning? My neighbor accidentally caught 1/2 of mine on fire when they were only about 5 years old and they survived luckily. She was burning trash and then there it went. I was away working but the trees are ok. I have wanted to burn them for a while but couldn't. (physically). They are loblolly and planted in 05 I think. I have had them thinned 2 years ago and they are doing good, but wanted to burn for the reasons you stated. Would you recommend waiting until the next thing or does it matter?

[curdog]

    What age would you recommend the trees to be before burning? My neighbor accidentally caught 1/2 of mine on fire when they were only about 5 years old and they survived luckily. She was burning trash and then there it went. I was away working but the trees are ok. I have wanted to burn them for a while but couldn't. (physically). They are loblolly and planted in 05 I think. I have had them thinned 2 years ago and they are doing good, but wanted to burn for the reasons you stated. Would you recommend waiting until the next thing or does it matter?

I typically burn two years after the first thinning in loblolly ( which for us is a little later around 15-17 years). This gives the trees time to recover from the stresses of thinning and allows enough regrowth of the undesirable species to get good benefit from the burn. This will also open the canopy a little more so it will allow heat to escape and cut down on needle scorch.

[WDH]

I also burn loblolly after the 1st thinning. 

[LaneC]

  Thanks a bunch. The knowledge on here is great. I have never even heard of needle scortch, but it makes perfect sense. Thanks again.

[WDH]

If the fuel load is high, you will generate a lot of heat.  You need the wind to dissipate that heat and you need cold temps to help do that as well.  Without either, you can get needle scorch.  Needle scorch usually does not kill the tree, but you can lose up to a year's growth.  Needles grow wood.  You have to protect them. 

Needles and leaves grow wood.  They are the growth factory.  In my estimation, one of the most common mistakes that timber growers make is that they allow their trees crowns to get too small from competition, i.e., too many trees vying for the resources needed to grow, light, water, and nutrients.  Without the needle or leaf area to fuel photosynthesis, the tree's growth slows down.  You have more stems, more pulpwood or low grade, small weak crowns, and less high value sawtimber.  It also take longer to get the trees to the desired crop size.  Time is money (old saying).  The gist of all this is manage your crowns.   

[SwampDonkey]

I agree, I see a lot of thick fir left for decades, acres and acres. Small diameter, short crowns, full of rot, junk wood. Not even good pulp. You have to keep thinning, it's not a one time deal. The trouble sometimes is getting rid of the residue off the thinning. How much firewood can you burn a year? Something has to pay for the thinning.  ;D

[WDH]

Not all areas have a pulpwood market which makes proper thinning a challenge for sure.

[WDH]

Well, it is that time of the year again.  Time to burn.  I burned a 30 year old pine plantation today, in fact, the very same one that was the original subject of this thread 12 years ago.  Still at it .

Here is the pre-burn condition:



 



 

First thing is to start a back burn (burn into the wind) to create a burned area from the firebreak.  In this pic, you can see the smoke from the backfire in the background.



 

After I got about 30 to 40 feet of burned area from the firebreak, I set the headfire.  The headfire is with the wind and moves at a pretty good clip.  It generates a lot of heat which is required to kill the 2" - 3" diameter hardwoods. 



 

Now the headfire is picking up some steam.



 

Here are the post burn results.



 



 

The humidity was perfect, and the wind was perfect.  The smoke plume trajectory was perfect.  This one went very well.  This is about the 6th burn on this plantation.