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Author Topic: Woody Biomass Harvesting  (Read 8630 times)

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Offline Faron

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Re: Woody Biomass Harvesting
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2007, 06:04:01 AM »
I don't think this plant can operate just off sawmill waste here in this area.  There are still a number of woodworking industries in the area, though.  There used to be a sizable amount of waste products coming from them.  Far as that goes, we are not that far from some bigger cities- Louisville, Evansville, Indianapolis, that might generate quite a bit of usable waste productsThat may be one area they are looking at.  Another area might be reclaimed strip mine land.  It might produce switch grass or some other grass.  I would personally be unwilling to sell much cornstalks off my land.  We  need to leave it on the land to prevent erosion and maintain organic material.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.  Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. - Ben Franklin

Offline Gary_C

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Re: Woody Biomass Harvesting
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2007, 09:24:06 AM »
One of the presenters at the meeting said that most of the coal used in the US has been under long term contracts for 10-15 years. Now many of those contracts are up for renewal and you will see prices for coal go up significantly. The guy from Minnesota Power was asked how much they pay for coal (they pay for the biomass based on the cost of coal) and he declined to answer because it is proprietary information.

There is another waste product that has a huge potential for use as a fuel.

TIRES    Just try to get a permit to burn them!!   ;D

As far as the woody biomass, they have identified these sources with logging residue being the largest.

Logging residue
Primary mill residue
Secondary mill residue
Urban tree waste
Dedicated energy crops
Land clearing and right of way projects
Brush from brushlands
Intensified forest management activities: Pre-commercial thinnings, Timber Stand Improvements (TSI)
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Woody Biomass Harvesting
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2007, 02:06:39 PM »
Residue from PCT isn't feasible. Cost/ton gathering that little stuff would be through the roof. If you attempted it, it would have to be manual labor unless you want to sacrifice some crop trees that would get skun up when traveling with a machine. You probably can't design a machine to cut the stuff like corn and chip it as it goes, wild lands are too rocky and hummocky. I could see using it on aspen stands and going back every 10 years to mow the regrowth. We have a pile of that ground, but it tends to be wet ground, so a tracked vehicle would be needed. The soil would get depleted pretty bad though I would think.
Move'n on.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Woody Biomass Harvesting
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2007, 02:09:18 PM »
Gary, do you guys do much pre-commercial thinning in your area? I don't see any done on woodlots in Maine. But, we thin 100's of acres a year on woodlots here. I'm thinning 500 acres with my crew this year.
Move'n on.

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Woody Biomass Harvesting
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2007, 05:02:34 PM »
Strip mines would be better reclaimed to grow hybrid poplar over switch grass. 

As for biomass source, we always used a rule of thumb of 1 cord of topwood/Mbf of sawtimber.  Guys who would be cutting firewood would get this, but there may be more yield if you chipped.  I wouldn't want anyone pulling tops to a central landing in an intermediate thinning.

Primary manufacturing will come in about 3 tons/Mbf of lumber, if you count chips and sawdust.  It holds pretty good for most mills.

Interesting that I was looking at some old research papers.  I ran across one from the Society of American Foresters entitled Forest Biomass As an Energy Source.  Date:  1979.  Almost 30 years later, and we're still talking about it. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline WDH

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Re: Woody Biomass Harvesting
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2007, 06:08:45 PM »
It was a hot topic when I was in school in the late 70's.  There was one project called silage sycamore under research at the Univ. of Ga.  Some hardwood plantions did get established, but the markets never materialized.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Gary_C

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Re: Woody Biomass Harvesting
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2007, 09:55:38 PM »
Gary, are those Norway pine really red pine? Some people have labeled them as such according to the Dendro book.

Here in MN and WI red pine is used as a general term for what the pulp and paper mills will buy. That includes norway, scotch, jack, white pine, and even spruce. So most sales will specify pinus resinosa as norway pine so there is no confusion with the mill general term.

Gary, do you guys do much pre-commercial thinning in your area?

Practically none. It is even difficult to find someone to cut a first thinning on plantation pines so they get more than a little overgrown. The only ones that will do some is the private landowner with his small acreage of woods around his cabin, but even they lose their enthusiasm after the first time. The only other ones to do much is the "sentence to serve" groups that are chosen to keep the buckthorn under control on some state owned lands. And there is no enthusism to start with for that job.   ::)

I understand the wildlife people do pay some contractors to do some brush shearing and pre commercial thinning for habitat and they are enthused about biomass for energy because it will lower their costs if the biomass is worth something.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Woody Biomass Harvesting
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2007, 04:14:15 AM »
 :D :D Yup, my guys have a 'sentence to serve'.  It's called making a living.  ;D

That's funny, but I know the context of your phrase.  ;)

It's also beneficial for the trees, which is the second reason for this work.  That would be incentive enough for me if I owned the woodlot. ;) 
Move'n on.

Online Ron Scott

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Re: Woody Biomass Harvesting
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2009, 05:55:42 PM »
AN EXAMPLE OF WHY WE NEED OUTREACH and TECHNOLOGY TRANSFER

The following article, published in the Bay Mills News, is a classic example of culturally ingrained misconceptions and lack of clarity in the media.  If wood is to be part of the future energy solution, these are the sorts of arguments that we will need to be aware of and deal with.  Private non-industrially owned fiber (family forests, moms & pops, etc.) constitutes about 47 percent of the fiber in Michigan.  Current forest industry and future forest industry will probably need to tap continually into this supply in order to remain viable.  We may even need to increase the supply from these ownerships.

http://www.baymillsnews.com/main.asp?SectionID=13&SubSectionID=36&ArticleID=1597&TM=46918.37

Wood Based-Energy Notes
~Ron

Offline Cedarman

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Re: Woody Biomass Harvesting
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2009, 06:52:26 AM »
A company is planning to put a biomass electric generating plant near Milltown Indiana.  You would not believe all the No Biomass Incinerator signs that are going up.  One fear is that their will be too many trucks on the highway bringing wood.  (We have several rock quaries and a huge underground warehouse that has many trucks per day arrive).  The wood hauling trucks would be about 1 every 1/2 hour or so.  Another complaint, if you can believe this, fuel trucks might collide with a school bus.  (I don't know where that came from but it was in the paper).  This would be in one of the poorest counties with one of the highest property tax rates inthe state. 
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Offline Tom

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Re: Woody Biomass Harvesting
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2009, 09:14:18 PM »
I've been in counties like that before.  That's why they are the poorest and have the highest taxes.  They are full of mully grumps that can't see past the end of their nose.
extinct

Offline WH_Conley

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Re: Woody Biomass Harvesting
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2009, 10:10:09 PM »
That's pretty much like it is where I live. All the big fish are in the small pond. They are  afraid if the pond grew they might be small fish.
Bill


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