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Concrete base for sawmill

Started by jrokusek, September 06, 2007, 09:34:45 AM

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jrokusek

I'm tired of screwing around and having my homemade sawmill sitting on railroad ties and having them move, sink, heave, etc.   I took 2 days off next week and want to form up and pour an oversized concrete sidewalk for the sawmill to sit on.  I was thinking of bolting 6"x6" green treated timbers to the concrete and bolting the sawmill bed to the timbers.

How thick should I make the concrete?  I'm wondering if the standard sidewalk thickness of 4" is a bit too thin.  Should I use a 2x6 for forms (5.5") or can I get by with 4" or so?  I'm just a hobbyist so it won't be used daily....if that makes any difference.

Jim

beenthere

I can only think that you will want to account for frost heaving below that slab. Beiing in SD, seems that will be the major problem. Are you going to make it a floating slab? such that it moves in one piece on the movement of frozen ground beneath? 

I'd think piers (concrete or treated wood) with ends down below frost line, with timbers on the piers would be a better choice. What is the choice of other construction in your area?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

jrokusek

Floating slab was what I was thinking.  A few pieces of rebar tied together were in the plans....probably would have helped had I told you that piece of info!   ::)

I was thinking piers too at one time.  I could use the railroad ties I have and put the nice timbers on top.  Also have a tractor with a post-hole digger to make digging MUCH easier.  However, I kinda want the concrete slab to keep things lower to the ground and more stable than if on piers.  Either way would work fine though.

Around here a floating slab is no big deal as long as you use mesh or rebar and it's backfilled propperly. 

Weekend_Sawyer

 I put in a real nice pad for my mill. It is 32 x 24. about 11 yards of concrete. I really liked it. I poured it 4" thick and had it floating with no problems. I prepared the ground underneath with my skid steer and it was very well compacted.  It was nice to have enough area to turn the skid steer around on, stack boards or park a truck to off load onto. The mill was along the high side so slabs could be pushed off and allowed to pile up on the slope.

I traded that pice of property to my brother who now has his garadge on that pad and I have my mill set up in my back yard in the dirt. It is compacted fill but I still have to level the mill alot more. I am going to pour another slab someday and will make it the same size and put a roof over it.

Jon
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

Haytrader

Jim,

In consideration of the cost of concrete and all the labor involved, and the possibility that you may at some time have the same issue as Jon, I would consider stiffening the frame on your mill.  Angle iron, while strong, can allow a lot of twist. How about adding a frame of 2x6 rectangular tubeing under the angle iron. Box the ends and add a couple cross members with the same tubeing. This would make it very stiff and may solve the original problem.
It looks like you are set up in an urban setting. (looked in your gallery) An electric power source would sure be quieter.  ;)
Haytrader

Tom

However you decide to place it, I would be concerned with the ability to clean out from beneath it.  I have sawed on my portable mills that have ample room beneath them and still  get sawdust and trash buildup beneath the bed that is difficult to remove.   Openings should be a must. Perhaps the idea of using a power washer or garden hose will help in the design.  The slab will definitely make it easier to level, but piers might make it easier to clean.  Maybe combine both.

jrokusek

Quote from: Haytrader on September 06, 2007, 10:34:35 AM
Jim,

In consideration of the cost of concrete and all the labor involved, and the possibility that you may at some time have the same issue as Jon, I would consider stiffening the frame on your mill.  Angle iron, while strong, can allow a lot of twist. How about adding a frame of 2x6 rectangular tubeing under the angle iron. Box the ends and add a couple cross members with the same tubeing. This would make it very stiff and may solve the original problem.
It looks like you are set up in an urban setting. (looked in your gallery) An electric power source would sure be quieter.  ;)

I've been thinking about that.  There's more to this story than meets the eye, however.  My wife and I are considering buying a new house.  In the Sioux Falls area the housing market is still quite good.  I'm fairly sure I can get a lot in town where I want it and may be my own contractor and then subcontract most stuff out to others.  I looked at what a house costs to build and realized that contractors make about 20% off the cost of the actual house.  ANYWAY, I think I have my wife almost talked into letting me cut enough wood for the trim, moulding and flooring.  If I can do that I can buy a Woodmaster Moulder/Planer and it will probably come close to paying for itself.  HOWEVER, I need to get some boards made in the very near future.  I don't necessarily need to cut everything right now, just enough to show my sweetie that this crazy idea is indeed possible. 

The pad is meant to be semi-permanent.  I can use it for the sawmill for the time being and later use it for a stack of lumber to air dry.  It's only about 1.25 yards of concrete anyway.  It won't take up much room....I have right under 400 acres to work with so I'm not concerned about room.  The second part of this is that I may upgrade to a commercial sawmill of some sort in the future so I'm not sure how much work, time or cash I want to put into this one right now.  I'm researching the idea of an urban logging/sawmill operation so I'd need something a bit more reliable if I take the plunge.  I really just need what I have to be more functional.

The pic's in my gallery are right after I finished it.  I brought it into the city to tweak it, paint it and test it.  The thing got lots of looks from curious neighbors!!  Right now it's about 75 miles away from me.  Sure was lots more fun when it was in my driveway!

thecfarm

I suppose you know to have a good gravel base and compact this down.I  had to level a place off for my mill.I only put round pre- made cement pads to put it on.Has not moved.The gravel is about 2 feet deep where the mill is.I would go with the 2x6 rectangle tubing too.That is what is under my 4x4 angle iron.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

jrokusek

I went ahead and poured the pad.  Now I remember why I haven't poured concrete for over a decade!  It was only 1.25 yards, but man am I tired!  Scraped the dirt, dug it in, put down gravel and compacted it, formed it, poured it and finished it all in about a day.  Would have gone faster if I didn't have to fiddle with the tractor to get it running and keep it running.  Dimensions:  44" wide, 5" thick and 20' long.

BEFORE




AFTER



beenthere

jr
That looks good. At least it will keep the weeds down. and be much easier to keep level and more fun to saw.. :) :) :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

fivedogs

i'm going to build something  similiar very soon  did you put in any footers  iwas wondering if i need to i live in upstate n.y. and it gets cold up here

jrokusek

Nope, no footers.  Gets DanG cold here too but I figure sidewalks hold up OK so this should too.  I did use three pieces of 1/2" rebar in it just for good measure.  I used these goofy little plastic rebar "chairs" to elevate them off the base.....I'd recommend using something a little better like a rock or a half of a brick.  I was trying to get fancy, but they were mostly just a pain in the rear end. 

bedway

nice slab, let us know how it works for your purpose,,,bedway

dail_h

   Reckon why he went to all that trouble to pour a slab for the mill,an then didn't pour it under the mill?????
   WE REALLY GOTTA GET A RUNNING FOR COVER SMILEY
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jrokusek

Awwwww dangit.....I knew I was going to screw something up   :D

Furby


Gary_C

That's the trouble with pouring concrete, as soon as you are done, the screw-ups start showing up.  :( :(

Sometimes they come with advice on how you should have done it.  :D :D :D
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

jrokusek

Well, I guess I can update this thread now.  I bolted 6"x6" green-treated timbers to the concrete, and then bolted my mill to the timers.  I guess I should have known that the treated timbers from the BORG are only treated for the first half-inch to an inch or so.  Oh well.

Anyway, I bolted everything together, leveled and shimmed a few spots, and then adjusted everything on the mill that can possibly be adjusted.  This homemade mill now cuts incredibly well!  I can't wait to get more logs - this is fun.  I cut some 7' Elm slabs and got lots of sawdust in my teeth 'cause I was smiling so much!

Jim



Furby


logwalker

I didn't know that John Deere made sawmills. Ain't she purty? Joe
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Handy Andy

  Regarding your statements about building your own house, in my career of 25 years as a builder, I might have made 20% once.  Normally it is less than 10% by the time I pay the property taxes etc.  If you are talking to subcontractors, they will talk up building your own, as they charge owner-builders more than their steady contractors.  They call them "once in a lifetime customers".  The subs like framers and plumbers are really ripping us off here.  All the regulations that get passed restricting who can do work in your city results in higher prices by the ones that are allowed to do the work.  Now, if you could frame your own house and do the plumbing, wiring, painting, installing woodwork and flooring, build your own cabinets and tops, you can save money.
My name's Jim, I like wood.

WDH

Nice pad.  I need to do something similar.  I store my LT15 in a shed.  I skid it out with the tractor, set it up (on the dirt), and saw.  When done, I skid it back into the shed.  I need a pad like yours to set it up on.  That would make set-up a snap.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mike_van

For the guy that doesn't want to spend the $$$$ for concrete, or stand on it all day, I don't know why a wood pad wouldn't work. If you layed [or half buried] PT 6x6's  flat on 2 ft centers, sawed out your own deck & screwed it down, put a coat of Thompsons [or similar] once & awhile?   I needed a sidewalk in front of my sugarhouse to stay out of the mud - 4 ft x 16 ft - I did the same thing with PT 4x4's, screwed  2x6's to them, 7 years ago, it's still there & working fine. I ran out of PT 2x6's part way, so I used some oak & maple I had - They'll all cup a little when the summer sun beats on them, but it sure beat buying the concrete [or mixing it] under the mill  you'd have to watch out welding on it.
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

jrokusek

Actually, for me, forming and pouring the concrete was faster.  Not that I'm against saving a few bucks or anything  ;)

I had the mill on 4 railroad ties and the frost and freezing temps would move the RR ties quite a bit.  This just turned out to be a bit easier for me.  Concrete was $124.52 delivered to me. 

WDH

Mike,

A good idea.  I might do that since the foundation deck could be portable if I wanted to move my sawing location.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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