iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

What to do with some spare parts? (Small shed)

Started by Dave Shepard, May 24, 2008, 07:38:27 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Dave Shepard

I've got a pile of leftover timber frame parts, namely a bunch of joists and about 600 square feet of 2" floor planking. Should I try to design a frame around the finished joists, or just chop them into something that will work for a new frame? I think the joists are 4"x6" 7'8" long.




Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Raphael

At the moment I'm inclined to suggest you keep them as is...
  But I'm wishing I hadn't burned all my old jamb extensions two winters ago as I could plane down and reuse a few of them around my kitchen window right about now.  :D
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Dave Shepard

We have a small shed that we keep a few bales of hay and some grain for the calves in hutches. It is in really bad shape. Come to think of it, it was in bad shape the day it was stapled together at the factory. :D It's about 8'x10', so the joists are about the right size, I could just build around them. The building they came out of was built in '81


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Dave Shepard

Looks like I'm building the 8'x10' shed. Will use up some of it anyway. Some of the joists are damaged on one or both ends, I'll use those for braces, or rafters. It is going to have 8"x8" timbers, should be a prettty rugged little shed.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Dave Shepard

The shed is going to be 8' 6"x12'. Dimensions based on reusing the joists as they are. Top of sill to top of plate will be about 8' 4". 4"x6" joists and rafters, both about 24" OC. Rafters will be M&T at peak, and 12/12. Braces will also be 4"x6". Either 30" or 36", will have to see what looks "right". Posts, sills, and plates will be 8"x8" white pine, unless I can weasle a few locust or white oak from somewhere. ;D Have lots of white pine, will be b&b siding, pine roof boards. Don't know what I'll use for the shakes, or if I'm brave enough to hand split them. There will be a 4"x4" wall girt* running around the outside to support the vertical siding. There will also be two door posts on one long wall. Not sure if I will use a sliding door, or two swinging doors.


Dave


*Will check to make sure that is right terminology. ;)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Brad_bb

Make sure to protect your sills from moisture and wood eating insects.  Sounds like a good little project.  For the roof, how about using it as a learning experience for learning slate roofing?  I bought "The Slate Roof Bible" on amazon as recommended by Thomas Massie on his blog.  You wouldn't think he was a first time with the way he did his ornate slate roof.  Slate roofs last a LOOOOONg time too if done right.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Jim_Rogers

Slate will last a long time, but figure the extra load into your roof load calculations.....

You may need to reduce rafter spacing if you don't want to up size your rafters.

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Dave Shepard

I'll be sawing some of the timbers this week for this shed. Any input on the dimensions from anyone? The 8'6" width is the only measurement that can't be changed, as it is designed around the 7'10" floor joists I already have. I will be using a frame design like that in Sobons Timber Frame Construction, just scaling it to fit the dimensions. I can't picture in my head which would look better, 8'6"x10', or 8'6"x12'. Fenestration will be minimal, probably a small window in each end, and a door on one eave wall. Thanks for any input.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Raphael

I think 12' would work well visually, it puts you close to the classic 3:4 interval.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Dave Shepard

I finished sawing out the logs I had at work for this little shed. I've got the four posts, two long sills, and one plate. I'll have to go on a walk to select a couple more pine trees to take down for the rest of the parts I need. It's warm enough now to work in the garage, so I hope to make some good progress on this frame in the next couple of months.

I've also got six I-joists in this load for a quick and dirty garden shed. You can never have too many sheds. :)

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Dave Shepard

I've managed to get an actual part finished for my shed. 8) It's only been almost a year since the inception of the idea. I think I am right on schedule so far. ::) :D DanG will be proud of both my procrastination, and my garage clutter. ;D

I've got about four hours into this piece. I don't know if that's good or bad. There's two stub mortises, two end sill mortises, four joist pockets, and one joist mortise. I'm not sure the joist mortise is really necessary, but it was fun. :) Tomorrow, I'll move in the two end sills. They only get a tenon on each end, so they should be done tomorrow, and then I'll bring in the other long sill. This will be a little different than the back long sill, as it will have to stub mortises for door posts.

The timbers I have were from logs that were bucked a little too short. I don't know why, but the logger cut the logs 12'1" and 16'1". ::) :-\ This left me with no wiggle room for joinery. The branch whorls were on two foot centers, as are the joist pockets. No matter which side I flipped the log to, there was a knot in each joist pocket. :D

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Jim_Rogers

Nice picture....

But, the tying joist should have a housing as well.......
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Dave Shepard

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Rooster

But, the tying joist should have a housing as well.......

Jim,

I understand the need for the housing for building width consistancy , but does your "housing" advice also include transferring the floor load through the end of the tie joist to the sill beam?...and not just to the horizontal tenon?

Could draw one of your "thingamagiggy" models, with your "nifty computing device"? :D

Also Dave, do the other joists just drop in and fit tight?...or is there a trunnel involved?




Rooster
"We talk about creating millions of "shovel ready" jobs, for a society that doesn't really encourage anybody to pick up a shovel." 
Mike Rowe

"Old barns are a reminder of when I was young,
       and new barns are a reminder that I am not so young."
                          Rooster

Dave Shepard

No trunnels involved. I might just cut out that part of the tying joist and call it a drop in. In the Sobon shed frame, there are no tying joists, and it's a 12'x16'. Just thought it would be fun to try a tying joist.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Rooster

Dave,

Where might I find the Sobon shed design/drawings....I might want to build a couple.

With mucg "thanks" in advance......

Rooster
"We talk about creating millions of "shovel ready" jobs, for a society that doesn't really encourage anybody to pick up a shovel." 
Mike Rowe

"Old barns are a reminder of when I was young,
       and new barns are a reminder that I am not so young."
                          Rooster

Dave Shepard

The plans are in "Timber Frame Construction", by Jack Sobon and Roger Schroeder. It is often called Jack's "Red" book. I am sure there are plans for it online, and possibly even here on the Forum. Jim Rogers can probably direct you better than I.

The tying joist is now a drop in. :D On to the next timber.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: Craig Roost on April 05, 2009, 11:39:45 AM
Could draw one of your "thingamagiggy" models, with your "nifty computing device"? :D

Rooster

Here is an over all picture of the shed we built:




And in this shed we did put in a tying joist.

First of all the reason for the tying joist is to tie the two long sills together so that they would move outward in the center from any pressure, should there be any, from anything on the floor, or at the base of the center bent.

And Dave is correct as to the fact that in Jack's book his shed drawings show no tying joist.
In his later 14' x 16' Dutch house he has put in a tying joist.
Again we did it for practice and wanted to make it stronger.

The bottom of the tying joist sits on the mortise at the same height at the rest of the joists. So the profile view shows the same. What I mean by that is that you have to figure the curve bottom cut to a correct amount.
In my rule of thumb photo, you'll see what I mean:



Now that we have established the shape of all floor joists, we just cut a tenon on one instead of making it a "drop in" joist:



And due to the face that all timbers are sized down to a standard predetermined size at joints, so that all joints will fit correctly regardless of the actual width of the timbers (that's the reason for using "square rule" joinery), there needs to be a housing on the inside of the timber:



In the above picture what is missing is the peg hole to hold the tenon in the mortise.
The peg hole should be 1 1/2" off the shoulder of the housing and centered on the mortise.

Here are some pictures of these in real life:





So when you're setting up your frame, you lay down one long sill and plug in the two cross sills and the tying joist into this first sill.
Then you hold the tying joist up with a block and slid the other long sill onto the three tenons as shown here:



Once you have all your tenon, pushed into the second long sill, you check for square:



Adjust if necessary, and then drop in your "drop in" floor joists......

Jim Rogers

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

In the above squaring photo you'll see a very large crack in the sill timber.
This timber was very poor in quality, and that is the reason it was used as a sill timber.
Usually low quality timbers are used for sills as most sills are continuously supported by the foundation (whatever that might be) and therefore have less stress on them.

Hope you've found this interesting....
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

moonhill

I'm not sure how strong this would be or it's holding power but I have seen in a peg hole drilled down through the edge of the joist and the sill pocket with a peg inserted and acting as a key to keep the joist from withdrawing.  You can also drop the joist in upside down and adze to the sill then flip them over, no layout and they aren't jumping around while doing the work in the shop. 

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

Thank You Sponsors!