The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

Draw for handbuilt acoustic guitar get your name in


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA


Council Tool

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat



Author Topic: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?  (Read 7265 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mike PA

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • Share Post
Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« on: July 15, 2008, 03:33:29 PM »
I am new to this forum, but it seems as though people are fairly friendly, so I am hoping for a bit of advice.

I cut for firewood to heat my house, but I cut more than the average guy who cuts firewood (I also clear land/ roads on a limited basis).    I have been very happy with the 038 mag, but it appears to be time to replace it.  I am going to stick with Stihl, as I am happy with the performance and I have a good local dealer/ shop and the 038 has been a great saw.  I am considering three saws, the 361, 441, and 460.  I am not a logger, but I do cut some large trees (24"-36"), mostly oak, hickory, and maple.  I think the 361, while a great saw by all accounts, is smaller than I want (there have been times when the 038 mag would be slow on some big wood), so mostly I am thinking the 441 and 460.  What does everyone think?  Which is better?  Either should have enough power (I have never needed more than a 20" bar).  Any help would be appreciated.

Offline Cut4fun

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1517
  • Location: BUCKEYE STATE
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2008, 06:10:32 PM »
If you haven't noticed yet there has  been alot of barely used 441's on the market lately. I would skip it and go straight to the 460 if it has to be a stihl in the cc size.
A friend of mine bought a 441 to replace a 044, I ran it some and was unimpressed. He and his dad ran it on the tree farm for a few months as a stock saw and as a woods ported saw with another cylinder and piston. They later put the stock set up back on and sold it. Neither one was very happy with the power of it and the people that go on about how much power the 441 has IMO hasn't ran a good saw or just trying to tell themselves they didn't waste close to $800 on a inferior saw  :D. JMO.

Offline Reddog

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1482
  • Location: "nothing here is required" Mi based
  • Gender: Male
  • Forest & Urban woody plant management
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2008, 09:19:53 PM »
Mike,
First Welcome.
Here is a link to my comments in another thread about the 441.
In a nut shell I like it.

Wally

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,29563.msg425680.html#msg425680

Offline Al_Smith

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 9216
  • Location: Northwestern Ohio in the center of a giant corn field
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2008, 02:50:22 AM »
Replacing an 038 Mag is big shoes to fill .Most likely one of the better firewood size saws Stihl ever made .

You can tweek that old duffer and it will hang right in there with an 80 cc stock saw .There are still plenty of parts available for those things .Fact is I worked on two within in the last two days .One was mine another for a customer .Both cut great but mine has had a tad bit of enhancement . ;)

Most likely a 460 would be the ticket if you want some grunt .After that ,refurbish the 38 Mag,you won't regret it ,money well spent .

Offline Maineloggerkid

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 633
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Kingman, Maine
  • Gender: Male
  • Earth first...Log the other planets later!
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2008, 05:41:28 AM »
I ran a 441 once, and it seemed that it was very long. IT felt like my arms were 3 feet apart. Power wise, my 372 will keep right up or beat it. Im buying a Stihl 460 sometime in the next 2 weeks, so I will report on it.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

Offline Mike PA

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2008, 07:23:38 AM »
Thanks everyone.  My inclination has been the 460, but a lot of reviews I have read are pretty high on the 441, which was making me reconsider. 

Wally - I appreciate your comments.  I have to think that, for me, the 441 would have enough power.  The improved AV would nice. 


Al - I am really considering tearing the 038 apart and rebuilding it.  I have not identified the problem yet. There is scoring in the cylinder but it has been there for a while, so I think the problem I am having now is because air is leaking in elsewhere or a combination problems.  I did check the compression, it gets up to 122 psi after 8-10 pulls.  Hopefully I'll have some time tonight to look at it some more.

Offline Al_Smith

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 9216
  • Location: Northwestern Ohio in the center of a giant corn field
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2008, 07:49:14 PM »
 You most likely can do a light hone and a rering and get most of the comp back .Rebuild the Bing carb and replace the clutch side seal while you are at it . These things are pretty tough saws .

One that I worked on a few days ago at one time had a grenaded piston ,didn't hurt the cylinder a bit . I rebuilt it several years ago,new piston ,bearings , seals etc . It did blow a seal after a few years for some unknown reason but that thing has seen over 15 years of service in use for a tree service compnay .Much more severe than most people would subject it to .They actually prefer this old saw to a more modern Ms 440 .

It leaks a little lube oil but I suppose I might too if I'd have been ran hard and put away wet as many times  as that thing has  been . :D

Offline Mad Professor

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
  • Location: Northeast
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2008, 09:55:26 AM »
I'd rebuild the 038.  Might just need rings and seals/impulse and fuel lines/carb rebuild.  If you need a cyl look on ebay for a good OEM used or new.  Tecomec also makes a quality replacement cyl assy at ca. 1/2 price of OEM.

I've recently rebuilt two 038. I ebayed a new OEM cyl assy for $180 and a tecomec for $100.  Add in $14 for a gasket/seal kit and another ca. $30 for carb kit and hoses.  Both saws runs as good/better than new now (a little muffler/port work).

Don't forget a new air filter (ca. $25) if you put the $ into a rebuild. 

Offline Mike PA

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2008, 08:59:36 AM »
I am rebuilding it.  Have the parts on order, should come in today.  The cylinder looked ok, just did a little honing.  I am getting crank seals, gaskets, rings, and impulse line.  After that is done, I'll see how (if?) it runs, and will look at the carb rebuild then.  I expected to find more wrong with it when I opened it up, so I am hopeful that this will take care of it and relatively cheaply.

I don't know anything about porting the muffler, so I won't be doing that.  I am just hoping to get it back into operating condition.  I am looking forward to getting the parts and putting it all back together.  For a saw that is over 20 years old, it has been very good.  This is the first time I've had to do any real work to it, except it got run over and the handle broke.

I have my fingers crossed that it will run again, as I am not looking forward to the cost of a new saw, even though I do want one.

Offline Good Feller

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Midwest
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2008, 09:48:47 AM »
Last year when I started looking for a bigger saw I went through the same dilemma between the 441 and the 460.  I'm glad I went with the 460 (I probably should have got the 660). 
When you are talking about buying a $750 dollar saw why not just spend another $100 or so and go first class?  PLUS,,, the 441 weighs just as much if not more than the 460 and has less power!  What's the point in getting the 441????  The dealer tried telling me how the 441 runs cleaner and blah blah blah....  Yeah whatever.  I think the 441 is a gimmick. 
I wouldn't want to cut any 24-36" trees with anything smaller than a 460 personally.  With the 460 you'll always have the option of putting on a longer bar and the saw should pull it easier than what the 441 would.    Go big or go home! (that was my wife's advice when I was saw shopping) LOL
Good Feller

Offline Al_Smith

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 9216
  • Location: Northwestern Ohio in the center of a giant corn field
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2008, 07:48:01 PM »
.

I don't know anything about porting the muffler, so I won't be doing that.  I am just hoping to get it back into operating condition.  
I have my fingers crossed that it will run again, as I am not looking forward to the cost of a new saw, even though I do want one.
You won't have any problems.If you do speak up we all had to learn at some time or another . ;)

Offline Old_Hickory

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
  • Age: 52
  • Location: northwest NC
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2008, 03:57:36 PM »
i had a 441 and sold it,and got 372 xp  the 372 willoutcut it hands down plus is lighter
gotta love those XP saws

Offline liketocut

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2008, 12:50:45 PM »
One thing about the 460, for about $35 you can buy a 440 dual port
muffler cover from Stihl. Have read it will gain about 10% HP.
I have the Stihl DP cover's on 460, 440, 066 and 660.
After installing DP cover you will need to richen carb setting's or
saw will run to lean.

Offline Al_Smith

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 9216
  • Location: Northwestern Ohio in the center of a giant corn field
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2008, 01:56:35 PM »
 --or for twenty minutes of work you can make your own dual port . ;)

Offline liketocut

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2008, 02:45:16 PM »
--or for twenty minutes of work you can make your own dual port . ;)

Yup.............That's what I done to MS260, MS361 and 064 ;D

Offline isawlogs

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8194
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Chelsea Qubec
  • Gender: Male
  • A smile is contagious ... Start an epidemic
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2008, 07:38:58 PM »

 Be nice if you would put a step by step process of making of dual port .
 I couple of pikchures would be apreciated too  :)
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Offline zackman1801

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 264
  • Age: 27
  • Location: Buckfield, Maine
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2008, 08:54:12 PM »
after really looking over an MS441 ( i didnt run it though) i can safely say there is no reason i would ever buy one. (unless it was incredibly cheap) its just simply, too big, too heavy, and underpowered for its size. my Ms460 is smaller and lighter, probably because of a shorter bar, but still why buy a heavier bigger saw that has less power, when you can get a far superior saw like the 460.  i just dont understand what stihl was thinking when they made the 441, its a shame really.
"Improvise, Adapt, OVERCOME!"
Husky 365sp 20" bar

Offline Cut4fun

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1517
  • Location: BUCKEYE STATE
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2008, 09:02:40 PM »

 Be nice if you would put a step by step process of making of dual port .
 I couple of pikchures would be apreciated too  :)

Every muffler out there seems to have a step by step muffler mod already posted elsewhere. Just use the yahoo or google search function for the saw you want and muffler mod or just muffler mod.

Offline Maineloggerkid

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 633
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Kingman, Maine
  • Gender: Male
  • Earth first...Log the other planets later!
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2008, 05:42:11 AM »
The 441 and 460 actually have the same dry weight, but the 460 has more power.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

Offline Al_Smith

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 9216
  • Location: Northwestern Ohio in the center of a giant corn field
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2008, 11:00:24 AM »

 Be nice if you would put a step by step process of making of dual port .
 I couple of pikchures would be apreciated too  :)
There isn't much to it really . There must be a zillion articles about same on the net .

As far as posting pictures ,I'm not smart enough to do so on this site ,Lord knows I've tried though . Fact is at the moment I've got a little glitch in my danged 'puter and can't post them any where for some reason or another . >:(


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Replacing 026

Started by JW IN VA on Chainsaws

5 Replies
785 Views
Last post September 30, 2016, 06:36:41 AM
by Ada Shaker
xx
Replacing 288

Started by backwoods sawyer on Chainsaws

13 Replies
1138 Views
Last post April 22, 2014, 12:07:22 PM
by mad murdock
xx
Replacing B57's

Started by AdamT on Sawmills and Milling

7 Replies
889 Views
Last post August 21, 2013, 08:41:28 PM
by Chuck White
xx
Replacing A 625

Started by NITRO313jh on Chainsaws

8 Replies
745 Views
Last post July 22, 2014, 02:05:09 AM
by NITRO313jh
 


Powered by EzPortal