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Author Topic: Establishing a New Pine Plantation  (Read 56642 times)

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Offline Darrel

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #280 on: July 02, 2017, 04:52:34 PM »
Some of what I'm going to talk about here is fact and some of it is what I heard my dad and his friends saying about the facts. What they said is most likely partially true.

When I was a kid, Japanese ships very much like the one in Ian's photo would come into Humboldt Bay, Eureka California, and load up the logs, Redwood, Douglas fir, and some incense cedar.  I liked to watch, but I knew that it was leaving fewer logs for my dad's mill and driving log prices up.

Another fact, bark slabs and edgings would wash up on beaches up and down the Pacific Coast. The part I heard the men talking about and may or may not be fact is this.  They had a complete sawmill on board those ships and by time the ship got to its destination there was nothing but lumber on board.  The bark slabs and edgings just got thrown overboard.
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #281 on: July 02, 2017, 06:23:12 PM »
No idea there. But this day in age there is no waste from a sound saw log on commercial operations. There is lumber, hog fuel, pellets, and pulp. In my youth sawdust and bark and maybe trimmings went up in smoke in a big cone shaped burner. Then total utilization came along. ;D

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

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Offline WDH

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #282 on: July 02, 2017, 07:03:07 PM »
The burners were called TeePee burners.  That was before the EPA  :)
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Offline Mooseherder

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #283 on: July 02, 2017, 07:32:45 PM »
Those Teepee burners were the cause of a couple Mill fires.
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Offline customsawyer

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #284 on: January 01, 2018, 10:40:21 AM »
Just for giggles I went through and read this whole thread. It was a great read and explains why I feel so old.
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Offline ellmoe

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #285 on: January 01, 2018, 11:32:19 AM »
Jake, I can remember , as a kid, going hunting with my Uncle in the North Florida flatwoods. We passed a timber stand that was being clearcut ( chip n saw ). He said, "I remember when those trees were planted." My thought was, "Wow, he's old!.". Later, in the same area, I realized that I had watched the same occurrence.... twice!  That thought hit me over ten years ago!!!!!!!!! :o
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Offline caveman

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #286 on: January 01, 2018, 01:12:42 PM »
I remember much of our area in citrus groves.  Now, much of that same land has apartments, shopping centers and subdivisions but there are substantial live oaks (many over 36" dbh) and other trees growing.  Some land owners planted slash pines to keep their land taxed as agricultural use.  The pines are good sized now too. 

Back when I was a boy and dinosaurs roamed the Earth and it smelled of molten sulfur...
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Offline Darrel

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #287 on: January 01, 2018, 07:36:42 PM »
Took my wife up on a mountain top in northern California's coast range.  When I was a kid, you could see the Pacific Ocean about 50 miles to the west, got up there and couldn't see nothin but trees, Douglas firs, mixed with black oak, madrone, and some tan bark oak. 
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Offline VirginiaFarm

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #288 on: January 05, 2018, 10:19:35 PM »
Great thread everybody. I just read the whole thing and found it to be one of the best threads not only on FF, but the internet. Now I need to get outside and thin my mini-plantation.

Offline WDH

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #289 on: January 06, 2018, 07:00:40 AM »
Thank you.

I have another 12 acres that will be planted in the next month with the very best genetics.  These trees that will be planted are loblolly MCP Elite from Arborgen.  The MCP stands for mass controlled pollinated.  The best mother tree and the best father tree from the seed orchard are selected from field trial test plantings.  The female cones on the mother tree are covered with brown paper bags, like the kraft paper bags you used to get at the grocery store, only the small size.  The are secured over the female cones before the cones are ready for pollination.  The pollen is collected from the father tree, and this pollen is injected into each of the bagged female cones to assure that no other pollen in the air can pollinate the female cone, assuring that the father is the selected parent.  Then, after the cones mature and the seed ripens, it is collected, planted in the nursery bed, then made available for planting. 

Here is the product catalogue for the trees.  You can see what is available.  I went with the MCP Elite.  The field performance of these trees has been very impressive. 

http://supertreeseedlings.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/2017-2018-SuperTree-Seedlnigs-eCatalog.pdf

It will be interesting to compare the growth from this new about-to-be-created 12 acre plantation to the growth and development of the plantation established in this thread in 2009.  The 2009 trees were good, but they were not supertrees. 
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Offline Andries

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #290 on: January 06, 2018, 08:05:29 AM »
It's so good to see you working hard at getting it just right.
Danny, you are a Renaissance Man. From genetics, sawmills, histology and silviculture, to kilns and fine woodworking.
Greek Proverb: "A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they will never sit in."
If you get that same guy with a sub-soiler to give you a hand, you'll be enjoying some shade while you're still young.
Hats off to you!
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Offline nativewolf

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #291 on: January 06, 2018, 08:23:57 AM »
Took my wife up on a mountain top in northern California's coast range.  When I was a kid, you could see the Pacific Ocean about 50 miles to the west, got up there and couldn't see nothin but trees, Douglas firs, mixed with black oak, madrone, and some tan bark oak.

Great!  Good to hear that the regrowth is happening.  In about 10 years or so the PNW is going to have a huge amount of timber coming online.  Now pulp wont' exist really as a market but there should be a great supply of dimensional lumber.
Liking Walnut

Offline red

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #292 on: January 06, 2018, 10:05:47 AM »
I can remember when these trees were planted.  .  . Very Nice Job
We have a lot of good boys and girls in harms way
lets all support them and their familys.

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #293 on: January 29, 2018, 10:21:27 PM »
OK, here we go again.  Another pine plantation being established.  The cool thing about this one is that I planted this old field in 1987.  The trees were thinned in 2000 and in 2010.  The stand was controlled burned multiple times.  Unfortunately, at age 30, root rot was killing too many of the trees and I had to clearcut it.  Now, in the ashes of the old plantation, a new one is born.

Here is a pic in Early 2016 with the original plantation entering its 30th year of growth.  This pic is just after a controlled burn. 



After harvesting, the debris was piled.



A few months later, the debris piles were burned.



Over the spring and summer, grass, weeds, and hardwood had grown up on the site.  The site was sprayed in August 2017 with herbicide to kill the weedy and woody competition by a crew using backpack sprayers with a modified wand to get a strong spray.  A dye is added to he herbicide mix so that the applicators can see where they have sprayed.



In November 2017, the site was ripped to a depth of 20" to break up any hardpan in the soil.    Today the site was planted with 7000 bare root loblolly pine seedling with the very best genetics available.  These are called supertrees grown by Arborgen.  It took a crew of 16 hand planters just one hour to plant the 12 acre site. The trees were planted on a 6 foot x 12 foot spacing.  12 feet between rows and 6 feet along the row.



The tool used to plant the trees is called a hoedad.  The trees are planted to the side of the rip to keep the seedlings from being covered over with soil from rain/washing and to avoid any air pockets deep down in the rip itself.  The roots will grow down into the rip to get below any hardpan created by past agricultural plowing (also called a plow pan) before the original plantation was established on this old field. 



The neat thing to me is that this site was originally an old field, then planted by me in 1987, then harvested in 2016, and now replanted in 2017.  So, I have seen one entire rotation on this site and have started a second one.  Maybe I can hang on to see this new stand thinned before my time expires  :).
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Online mike_belben

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #294 on: January 29, 2018, 10:26:50 PM »
Good stuff
Revelation 3:20

Offline curdog

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #295 on: January 29, 2018, 11:10:07 PM »
That's a real clean looking tract, and the site prep will definitely pay off. But I hope your tree planters don't head north to the foothills of nc, they're going to be spoiled by the clean flat ground... ;D

I spend a lot of time thinking about tree spacing,  and I like hear different peoples thoughts on spacing,  what is the benefit of the 6x12 spacing for future harvest. I'm planting cutovers on a 10x10 or 8x10, and open fields on 8x12. We have a little slope that affects thinning in areas,  so I widen things a little to account for this,  but I'm always after new ideas for the best quality planting for folks..

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #296 on: January 29, 2018, 11:13:22 PM »
Very similar to how it's done in NZ with Radiata pine, although most forestry sites aren't as flat as that.  :D Pine trees are grown on ground that not much use for anything else. We also have the advantage the pine canopy generally closes over enough to suppress and weeds, so no need for the controlled burn stage.
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #297 on: January 30, 2018, 03:25:24 AM »
Looks like a well planned operation and many hands make light work (old saying). I can certainly appreciate the process since I have been a silviculture guy for 30 years. And I like that the debris piles are disposed of. They would otherwise become porky havens up here that love softwood bark of any native species up here. ;D

We plant spruce and pine at 5 to 6 foot spacing up here. Our softwood hold limbs a long time if they are too open. My plantations are now 20 years old and just now pruning up enough to see for quite a distance. They are 1000-1200 trees to the acre including the natural regen species. Balsam fir grows twice as fast as spruce in diameter and very shade tolerant. I have quite a good catch of fir on about 40 % of my ground, where it is well drained. I do some pruning, but it gives me no extra dollars from any local mill. They are too used to getting a lot of things for next to nothing. :D

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #298 on: January 30, 2018, 06:34:29 AM »
Very nice stand in the first foto!!

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Re: Establishing a New Pine Plantation
« Reply #299 on: January 30, 2018, 06:51:24 AM »
Very intensive work there, tree planting crews can do amazing work.  Question for you, did you consider mulching instead of pile and burning?  Piling and burning moves so much of the nutrient base off site into the atmosphere that we are recommending forest mulching instead of the traditional post harvest pile/burn.  Not that we're not advocates of burning, we'll burn a site to only a savannah if you let us (because lots of clients like the look and great for hunting). 

 I'll say that man it is nice to have a working pulp market close by. 
Liking Walnut


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