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Author Topic: Who has a Concealed Carry??  (Read 18843 times)

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Offline pappy19

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Who has a Concealed Carry??
« on: November 27, 2008, 09:29:38 AM »
For all those that have a Concealed Carry Licence, you should watch this. Our friends from the north and Aussies should as well.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4069761537893819675&p
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Offline scsmith42

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2008, 09:46:01 AM »
Pappy, do you know the story behind that video? (I know it, but am curious if most others do too).

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Offline pappy19

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2008, 09:53:35 AM »
I doubt the younger folks remember it, but I sure do.
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Offline WH_Conley

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2008, 10:05:56 AM »
I remember it well. All it would have took to save lives would have been one person.
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Offline Rocky_J

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2008, 10:11:28 AM »
She was testifying at a hearing on enacting more gun restrictions, wasn't she? Look at England if you want to see what happens when you outlaw guns in heavily populated areas. Stabbings and strongarm robberies are rampant, thieves are brazen and will steal anything not nailed down with no fear. Around here, people are darned careful not to go poking around where they don't belong for fear of getting shot.

An armed society is a polite society.

Offline Warbird

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2008, 12:26:11 PM »
Wow.  That was intense.  I remember something about it but not many details.  What should I google to find more information on that video?

*edit* n/m on my question.  Quoted the post, got the direct URL and found what I was looking for.  Thank you for posting this.

Offline wi woodcutter

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2008, 01:05:59 PM »
amen
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Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2008, 04:10:21 PM »
She was a chiropractor in central Texas, later became a state representative, and co authored our concealed carry law.  And yes, I do.

This was a news release by the Violence Policy Center (Brady) at the time of the passage of the law.

Texas Concealed Carry Permit is "License to Kill" New Violence Policy Center Study Reveals

Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders Arrested for Crimes That Include Murder, Kidnapping, Sexual Assault, Weapon, and Drug Charges

Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders Arrested for Weapon Offenses at Rate More Than Twice That of State's General Population Aged 21 Years and Older

You notice they only talk arrest, not conviction.  Part of the law that can get you arrested is "failure to conceal".  About half of the arrests.  The nonsense about "twice that of the general population" is just that, Brady Lied.  The arrest rate is 1/10th that of the general population, and conviction is 1/20th that of the general population.  You see, In Texas, if you are involved in a shooting, you are arrested, and appear before the Grand Jury.  Cop or civilian. 

Wikkipedia on Hupp:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanna_Hupp
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Offline okie

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2008, 05:26:35 PM »
Nothing bothers me much more than political figures affecting the peoples right to protect theirselves, their families, and their property. What she said there at the last was the God honest truth, The ammendment is int about hunting, it is about giving the people the right to protect theirselves from their government. I was in the Army, was a sodier, but I have to have a concealed carry permit in order to have a loaded weapon outside my home or woods. What a crock.
This woman said some things I dont agree with as towards her feelings about the man that killed so many people and her folks, but she was dead on right about one thing.... Her mother and father would probably not have been killed that day if she, an honest citizen, were allowed to carry her weapon without fear of persecution.
I promise you that criminal activities would decline if more citizens carried for protection. Like stated before, the bad guys tend to think twice if they think there is a possibility they will be shot and killed for their actions.
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Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2008, 11:56:53 AM »
I promise you that criminal activities would decline if more citizens carried for protection. Like stated before, the bad guys tend to think twice if they think there is a possibility they will be shot and killed for their actions.

Hmmm, I can think of a few neighborhoods where just about everyone is packing and the crime rates are off the charts.  I think there could be a flaw in this oft cited reasoning. 
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Offline DanG

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2008, 12:29:18 PM »
We have neighborhoods like that too, OWW, but they usually leave the "neighbor" off of the word.  Those places, and the people who inhabit them, are the chief reason the rest of us need to be armed.  Virtually every household in our neighborhood is equipped to defend itself, and our crime rate is zero.  If your's is not, you better keep DanG quiet about it.

I don't carry a weapon all the time.  In fact, I rarely do, but it is widely known that I may be at any time, and that is a deterrant.  I've also been known to be outside in the middle of the night.  It only takes a couple of drug deals being lit up by a Q-beam for the word to get out. ;D
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Offline okie

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2008, 09:31:42 PM »
We have neighborhoods like that too, OWW, but they usually leave the "neighbor" off of the word.  Those places, and the people who inhabit them, are the chief reason the rest of us need to be armed.  Virtually every household in our neighborhood is equipped to defend itself, and our crime rate is zero.  If your's is not, you better keep DanG quiet about it.

I don't carry a weapon all the time.  In fact, I rarely do, but it is widely known that I may be at any time, and that is a deterrant.  I've also been known to be outside in the middle of the night.  It only takes a couple of drug deals being lit up by a Q-beam for the word to get out. ;D

That is what I was talking about, honest law abiding citizens being able to carry, not thug punks.
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Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2008, 10:07:25 AM »
In a similar vein, DanG, I may carry and I may not but the folks around here think I am crazy so they leave me alone  :D

Okie, if only the honest, law abiding citizens are carrying guns we have nothing to sweat.  Probably not that many around  :D

Actually I am fairly certain that those folks can't shoot straight on account they never practice and most would never pull the trigger so their gun would end up out on the street before the funeral.
If they do manage to sqeeze one off I wonder where it would end up?

I would imagine if that lady had her little revolver (remember she carried it in her purse so likely to be a .22) and she pulled it out her first shot would have been her last.

All I am saying is the root problems of crime are deep and varied and simply encouraging the masses to carry a firearm will do little to solve the problem.  Remember the frontier states in the 1800s?  Lots of people carried and crime was fairly prevalent where folks wanted what others had.
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Offline DanG

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2008, 10:37:55 AM »
Okie, if only the honest, law abiding citizens are carrying guns we have nothing to sweat. 
All I am saying is the root problems of crime are deep and varied and simply encouraging the masses to carry a firearm will do little to solve the problem.  Remember the frontier states in the 1800s?  Lots of people carried and crime was fairly prevalent where folks wanted what others had.

If none of the honest, law abiding citizens were carrying guns, we would have a lot to sweat.

You are correct that arming the masses will not solve the problem, but it can keep some of us alive until something else solves it.  I don't remember much about the 1800's.  I was pretty young then. ;) :D

What I do remember is the parade of slow moving vehicles that used to cruise past my house late at night.  I would step out to the road with the Q-beam and shine it toward the bottom of the hill, and there would always be two cars parked down there.  They would leave immediately, and after a while they stopped coming.  They knew full well that the Q-beam was backed up by something loud, and they wanted no part of it.

Oh yeah, they think I'm crazy too. ;D
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Offline Roxie

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2008, 11:05:17 AM »
Camden, New Jersey has the second worst crime rate in the country

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/11/camden_ranks_no_2_in_national.html

Yet, New Jersey has the toughest gun control laws.  Seems to me that a reasonable person could conclude that gun control laws do not prevent crime. 

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Offline Warbird

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2008, 11:42:15 AM »
Okie, if only the honest, law abiding citizens are carrying guns we have nothing to sweat.  Probably not that many around  :D

Actually I am fairly certain that those folks can't shoot straight on account they never practice and most would never pull the trigger so their gun would end up out on the street before the funeral.
If they do manage to sqeeze one off I wonder where it would end up?

You would be wrong on both accounts.  Do you have any idea what it actually takes to obtain a concealed carry permit in the States where one is required?

I would imagine if that lady had her little revolver (remember she carried it in her purse so likely to be a .22) and she pulled it out her first shot would have been her last.

Why do you say this?  Have you seen some women's purses?  I know different ladies who carry varying calibers...  .22's, .38's, .357's, right up to a small frame .44.

As for your comment on her first shot being her last...  can you back that up with some real life experience or some science?  She said she was trained with the gun and could hit "much smaller targets at much greater distances".  Are you attempting to refute her testimony?  If so, please offer something more than conjecture.

All I am saying is the root problems of crime are deep and varied and simply encouraging the masses to carry a firearm will do little to solve the problem.  Remember the frontier states in the 1800s?  Lots of people carried and crime was fairly prevalent where folks wanted what others had.

You have said a lot more than that.  The 1800's were a different time and a different society.  Why don't we try comparing to a modern society like... London, perhaps?  ;)

OWW, respectfully, there is a lot of "flawed reasoning" on both sides of this issue.  This is one of those topics that gets folk's knickers in a twist pretty quick, so I'll bow out with this post.  Drop me a PM if you would like to discuss science, numbers, and factual stuff.  I'm always willing to learn more.

Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2008, 12:13:52 PM »

Actually I am fairly certain that those folks can't shoot straight on account they never practice and most would never pull the trigger so their gun would end up out on the street before the funeral.
If they do manage to squeeze one off I wonder where it would end up?

I would imagine if that lady had her little revolver (remember she carried it in her purse so likely to be a .22) and she pulled it out her first shot would have been her last.


Pretty much wrong on both counts.  I carry, have the permit, practice, and am tested regularly by the state.  Ex military as well, I know guns, and use them.  In the classes and mandatory follow ups, the students must show their proficiency, and do.

If your comment on "likely to be a .22" is about Hupp, you are dead wrong, the lady carries a 9mm Beretta.

But this is Texas, your mileage may very.
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Offline scsmith42

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2008, 12:18:01 PM »

I would imagine if that lady had her little revolver (remember she carried it in her purse so likely to be a .22) and she pulled it out her first shot would have been her last.

All I am saying is the root problems of crime are deep and varied and simply encouraging the masses to carry a firearm will do little to solve the problem.  Remember the frontier states in the 1800s?  Lots of people carried and crime was fairly prevalent where folks wanted what others had.

Robert, a couple of observations. First, as I recall Susanna Gratia was a well versed competitive shooter in Texas when the massacre at Luby's took place, and she had both the skill as well as the means to have defended herself and her family.  Unfortunately, the law in Texas at that time only allowed folks to keep their firearms in their vehicles, not on their person.  Her frustration was that Texas law prevented her from responsible behavior that could have allowed her to save not only her parents lives, but the lives of many others who were slaughtered that day.  Most competitive shooters carry a caliber larger than a .22, but even a .22 can be deadly in trained hands.

Second, re crime, around ten to fifteen years ago the US Justice Department conducted a survey of convicted armed robbers, unarmed robbers, and burglers that were serving time.  Amongst other questions, the survey enquired if the criminals plans were impacted by the fear of an armed victem.  Well over half of the respondants stated that they had decided against a crime against a specific person at some point in their past careers, because they feared that the intended victim was armed and they did not want to get shot or killed.  This is a matter of public record, and it clearly exhibits the deterrant value of firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens.

Third, our country's heritage is one of collective and individual independance, as well as individual freedom.  Firearms play a key role in an individuals ability to defend themselves, and thus to maintain a degree of independance.  And it is not prudent to limit the argument to "hunting" firearms, because these types of long arms are not well suited to self defense.  If an individual chooses not to be able to defend themselves, that is their choice.  However, I feel that it is wrong to restrict the choices of others to protect their own freedom, property and lives by owning and using firearms in a safe and prudent manner.

Ultimately, firearms, in the hands of law abiding citizens, represent both a deterrant as well as a defense against against crime and tyranny.

On a side note, many of the gun battles that took place in the "old west" occured in or around saloons, and we all know that alcohol and guns should not be mixed.

Also, I am familiar with the concealed carry requirements of several states, and they all require that the licensee display a proficiency with a handgun before being issued with a CCW.  Accuracy, ability to safely load, unload and manage the firearm are a part of the test that must be passed in order to obtain a license.  Some states may not require this (my own CCW from Indiana 18 years ago did not require a test), but most other states do.
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Offline Tim L

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2008, 09:03:23 PM »
John Stossell did a good report on armed citzens that is on you tube .
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: Who has a Concealed Carry??
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2008, 10:41:01 AM »
Yet, New Jersey has the toughest gun control laws.  Seems to me that a reasonable person could conclude that gun control laws do not prevent crime. 

I agree!  If it is against the law to have guns, criminals would use knives, clubs, etc!

Seems I heard somewhere (can't recall where or when), some time ago that there was a "state or maybe it was a city" where it was the law that every household would be required to have at least one firearm in working order.  It didn't mean that they had to use it, but they did have to have it!
I guess a move like that would drop the crime rate!
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