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Author Topic: Glue-ups  (Read 3252 times)

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Offline D._Frederick

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Glue-ups
« on: March 22, 2009, 03:22:44 PM »
I am glueing up pieces to make a 20 x 30 table top,  I let the glue dry and found that my table was not flat. I checked my jointer (8inch PM) for square and found that if I held a light in back of my machinist square, I could see some light.

Do you guys use a glueing rack to hold the slats flat while the glue drys? 

Offline 1938farmall

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2009, 03:48:18 PM »
d.f.  there are folks here who will tell you to reverse the joints so that if your jointer is cutting parallelograms, the angles are canceled when mated.  cauls are easy to clamp on to keep assembly flat when glueing.  you will probably have more trouble with the natural tendency of each board having it's own mind about staying flat.  a belt sander with a 36g or 50g belt will help alot to get it flat.  al
aka oldnorskie

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2009, 04:50:54 PM »
Yeah, you could have the piece dead flat and the glue up could loose moisture sitting in a wood heated shop and all the sudden tomorrow morning there is a little cup in the middle of the table. I use clamps when gluing mine that put in from the sides and also push down. It can still move after you remove the clamps. The way to keep it flat when built is the supporting rails that run in the opposite grain orientation. Use the jointer to run a groove along the upper edges of the rails and fasten to the underside of the table so they will slide as the wood moves during different times of the year. And fashion some 1 x with drilled holes on the underside to keep it pulled flat. If your table is not leafed, I would use pieces no longer than 12" because it can move quite a bit over a 30 inch spread. I say compliment with the 1 x slats because you will need support in the middle across the 20 depth as well.



This first pic is under a commercial made hard maple table with a leaf insert. See the 1x 12" slat screwed on the underside to hold the surface flat. This tablee only had corners for the legs and not boxed rails running on the underside that I described above.



This is the underside of my coffee table, the 1x is attaching the rails and they are boxed with legs fastened with those corner braces like on the left. There is a couple 4" wide slats screwed on underneath on this table to keep her flat.

Accompanying thread for the coffee table
Move'n on.

Offline D._Frederick

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2009, 06:46:56 PM »
SD

Do you finish the under side of your tables to keep moisture out of the wood?

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2009, 07:40:26 PM »
I do, but that won't keep moisture out, unless ya want to encase the wood in epoxy. :D ;)
Move'n on.

Offline Burlkraft

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2009, 07:28:26 AM »
I am glueing up pieces to make a 20 x 30 table top,  I let the glue dry and found that my table was not flat. I checked my jointer (8inch PM) for square and found that if I held a light in back of my machinist square, I could see some light.

Do you guys use a glueing rack to hold the slats flat while the glue drys? 

I invested in the Plano clamps about 8 years ago.

They work great  ;D  ;D

http://www.advmachinery.com/default.asp?pg=plano

That's what I used on the panels for the desk project that Jeff burned.

Drum sanders also make nice flat panels.
Why not just 1 pain free day?

Offline D._Frederick

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2009, 07:54:02 PM »
B,
The Plano glue press would look like a nice additions to any shop, the only problem is the $ 500 and shipping. It would be  little costly for my hobby right now with the way the stock market has gone.

I bought a used stoke sander some years back that I use to finish my glue up panels, it does the job but is slow.  I would have like to have a wide belt sander, but backed off of that idea because of the need of  3 phase.

Offline Larry

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2009, 08:09:46 AM »
I use cauls...because its what I learned 40 years ago.  Did a quick google and this was the first hit to come up on how to make and use. 

Building and Using Clamping Cauls

You might check your joints to insure they are square and watch the clamps when tightening...equal number on top and bottom.  Its pretty easy to warp a panel with pipe clamps as you tighten.

I finish both sides not to keep the moisture out but to equalize the moisture intake between the top and bottom.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Offline Burlkraft

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2009, 08:57:38 AM »
B,
The Plano glue press would look like a nice additions to any shop, the only problem is the $ 500 and shipping. It would be  little costly for my hobby right now with the way the stock market has gone.


Yeah, Ya gotta glue up a lot of panels to pay for 'em.

When ya don't sell yer stuff it REALLY takes a long time  ::)  ::)

When I bought 'em they were about $400.00 and the job I bought 'em for paid for 'em, but then my labor was free  :D  :D
Why not just 1 pain free day?

Offline D._Frederick

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2009, 12:39:25 PM »
Larry,
The problem with cauls is the time it takes to apply them before the glue sets up. The making of the cauls I have seen generally have a large radius cut into the surface that contacts the glue up pieces so that equal pressure is applied across the surfaces.  Hope this makes sense.

If I were doing a lot of glue-ups, I would get a set of PLANO clamps.

Offline Modat22

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2009, 01:00:43 PM »
if its a really time consuming setup woodworker 2 glue gives you a pretty long work time. If you need an hour or so you can't beat plastic resin glue (unless working with very light colored woods, the glue line will show up).
remember man that thy are dust.

Offline D._Frederick

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2009, 11:16:53 PM »
Just got thought spending  an hour and half cleaning off the squeece out of glue from the mortice and tenion joints on the tables I am building. I  waited until the glue had set up to the soft stage and cut it off with 1/4 inch chisel.

What method do you use?   Wipe it off with a wet rag, sand it off when dry, or as I did.

Offline pigman

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2009, 11:37:47 PM »
I try real hard to not have any squeeze out. ;) ;D Since that seldom works, I use one of the methods you mentioned. I sometimes try to scrape the glue off with a chisel when it is still wet and hasn't had time to soak in with softer woods. I have tried using painter's tape around the joint before gluing with some success.  I think a little hard glue clobs around joints just shows the furniture is handcrafted. :D
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

Offline Sprucegum

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2009, 11:46:43 PM »
When I try the wet rag method seems like I spread glue everywhere instead of cleaning it up >:(
The chisel works OK if I catch it before it gets too hard. Otherwise I just hope I can get at it with a sander.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2009, 05:54:17 AM »
Pale of water and sponges. The water to wash the glue out of the sponge. One side of the sponge has the abrasive surface on it. Carpenter glue gels up quick, so you need that side to rub it a bit to get it off. Sometimes you want a little glue to add sawdust to make fill to. Sometimes you have to do that more than once.
Move'n on.

Offline Modat22

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2009, 07:59:23 AM »
I use a cheap electric toothbrush and water when the glue is still wet and a dull cabinet scraper when the glue skins over.
remember man that thy are dust.

Offline Sprucegum

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2009, 09:31:21 AM »

I use a cheap electric toothbrush and water

  8) A power tool! Now we're getting somewhere!  ;)

Offline Modat22

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Re: Glue-ups
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2009, 09:40:54 AM »

I use a cheap electric toothbrush and water

  8) A power tool! Now we're getting somewhere!  ;)

Its sounds silly, but at times you can't quite get into a corner edge and end up rounding over the glue squeeze out. One of those electric toothbrushes that go back and forth do a fantastic job  :D

P.S. those sonicare toothbrushes are hard to beat at cleaning carbs.
remember man that thy are dust.


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