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Author Topic: Two unknowns  (Read 2072 times)

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Offline Radar67

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Two unknowns
« on: May 30, 2009, 11:14:35 PM »
Found a couple that don't match my guides. What are they?

The fruit or flowers of the first


Leaf and bud


Leaf and fruit


I know this is an oak, just not sure what kind.


And it has this on it. They hang like fruit, but are hollow with a fuzzy tuft inside. The shell is papery and thin. You can crush it between your fingers with little effort.


Is it a fungus or bug?
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: Two unknowns
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2009, 07:44:00 AM »
Looks like what I call red oak up here.No idea the Latin name.
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Offline DanG

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Re: Two unknowns
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2009, 10:27:10 AM »
Stew, ya didn't include anything in the pics for scale, but I'm gonna guess that the leaves of the first one are rather small, and that it is Chinese Privet.

That oak leaf inspired me to go back and review WDH's very excellent series of threads on oak ID.  It's tough to get a positive ID from just one side of one leaf, but Black Oak is a possibility.
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Offline Radar67

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Re: Two unknowns
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2009, 02:19:26 PM »
The leaves on the first one are 2 to 3 inches long and 1 inch plus at the widest point. I'm pretty sure it is not privet. The pod has a dual green seed look when you open it up. The "seed" is in two identical pieces.

I'll look back at the black oak WDH posted about, but I'm really curious to know what the growth on it is. They were all over the branch I was looking at (about 20 or 30 of them). The back of the leaf was green and sort of shiny, almost identical to the front, maybe just a touch lighter.
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Two unknowns
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2009, 05:38:11 PM »
I'm kinda thinking Carolina buckthorn for the first one rhamnus caroliniana

The last picture shows damage from a sawfly or tiny wasps. They sting a bud to cause a cynipid gall to form for their larva to develop inside. Tom has shown similar galls on his water oaks, his form fuzz and pokidots. 

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

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Offline Radar67

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Re: Two unknowns
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2009, 07:59:17 PM »
Thanks Swamp, the galls seem to match what I am seeing.
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Offline Lanier_Lurker

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Re: Two unknowns
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2009, 01:18:40 PM »
Just looking at the leaf, there are at least 3 possibilities on the oak.

black
shumard
scarlet

Given your location, scarlet seems unlikely, but the range maps show some disconnected populations from the primary range boundary that are close to you.

If you could find an acorn it would help.  The shumard acorns are usually quite large and the cups separate easily from the nut.  With black oak, the cup covers about 1/2 of the nut and does not easily separate from the nut.

Of course, it could be a hybrid as well.

If I were forced to wager on it I would go with black oak.

Offline Dodgy Loner

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Re: Two unknowns
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2009, 08:51:15 AM »
Radar, the top one appears to be an American snowbell (Styrax americanus), and I believe the oak is a black oak or a northern red oak.  Look for fuzziness on the underside.  Black oak has it, northern red oak does not.
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Offline Radar67

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Re: Two unknowns
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2009, 10:05:25 AM »
The underside of the leaf was slick.
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Offline WDH

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Re: Two unknowns
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2009, 12:38:43 PM »
I would say the oak is shumard or scarlet, probably shumard since there are a lot of them in that area.  Like LL said, the acorns will tell the difference.  The acorn cup on shumard is saucer shaped and only clasps the base of the acorn.  In scarlet, the cup covers half the nut.
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Offline Lanier_Lurker

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Re: Two unknowns
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2009, 12:50:47 PM »
Assuming you have access to the tree, there is also the bark scratch test shown here to rule out (or help confirm), black oak.

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/DENDRO/DENDROLOGY/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=39

Offline WDH

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Re: Two unknowns
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2009, 06:46:44 PM »
After sleeping on it a few nights, I have come around to DanG's black oak camp...
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