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Author Topic: Lumber grading  (Read 4001 times)

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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Lumber grading
« on: June 17, 2009, 05:44:44 PM »
A lumber grader was at the mill grading some ash that is going for export.  Standard NHLA grading is being used.

The grader states that 10% of the boards can be a scant 6" and still pass for FAS.  So, I said do you mean 10% of the boards or 10% of the 6" boards.  He says its 10% of the boards.

After a few I don't think so, he says he can prove it from the grade book.  He pulls up this part of the book as his proof:

Ninety percent of the minimum widths mentioned in all grades of
lumber shall be full width; the remaining ten percent may be up
to 1/4" scant in width. This rule also applies to each stock width
and to any specified width.


I told him that I thought that statement backed up my claim.  His proof was that if he had 10 6" boards laying out that one of them could be scant. 

I said that I agreed, but if I had 10 random width boards laying out and 2 were 6", could any of them be scant?  He didn't answer.  But, he did tell me that he has been grading that way for the past 28 years and that's the way he was taught in Memphis by the NHLA. 

I still think I'm right.  Any other opinions?
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Offline ADAMINMO

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2009, 05:50:04 PM »
A man is always right ....... if a woman says so. According to my wife. I dont know nothing about grading but yours sounds more right if you only have 2 boards versus 10.

Offline metalspinner

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2009, 05:58:54 PM »
Reading that rule for the first time here so take this as a completely uneducated response... ::)


But it sounds like ten percent of the total boards graded can be scant regardless of the mix of dimensions.
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Online LeeB

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2009, 06:30:10 PM »
I read it to say that 10% of any minimum width, ie 6" for FAS,  can be scant.
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Offline Jeff

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2009, 07:11:08 PM »
The way writtenI understand it to be 10% of only the minimum width boards.
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Offline Frickman

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2009, 07:14:24 PM »
Ron's correct. The other fellow has misinterpreted the rule. The rule is very clear that 10% of the 6" pieces can be scant, not 10% of the total pieces.

Both of my grandpa's owned mills so I have been around the hardwood lumber business all my life, and you can't imagine some of the crazy things I've had graders tell me. I've had graders tell me the same thing. I've also seen graders put a their crayon mark over a pin knot that they didn't want to hurt the grade, but that's another story.

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Offline WH_Conley

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2009, 08:12:36 PM »
10% of min width, the way it was when I went to school.
Bill

Offline beenthere

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2009, 09:49:18 PM »
I agree with Ron and others too.

Seems the widths (for FAS) wider than 6" are random width, and "scant" can't happen to them.  ::)

But cutting splitting hairs with the rules is a game of words sometimes.  :) :)

Maybe his check grader will step in here. He is grading in favor of the seller, seems like.

Inspectorwoody might chime in here.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline zopi

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2009, 10:29:37 PM »
Grading rules are a little fuzzy aren't they?

I like my method..."this one looks like crap, lemme cut that nasty bit off...THAT'S better!"
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Offline Chico

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2009, 01:25:40 AM »
Dead on Ron 10% of min widths
Chico
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2009, 05:46:43 AM »
Thanks guys.  I told him if he's buying that way, it didn't bother me. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline dewwood

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2009, 09:03:04 AM »
Right on Ron!  I would sell to him that way as long as he wants to buy and can pay the price.  I agree with you he is misinterpreting the rule book.  His example to you even verifies what you are saying.  However I know it is difficult for some of us to admit we are mistaken. :D
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Online SwampDonkey

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2009, 04:58:38 PM »

Ninety percent of the minimum widths mentioned in all grades of
lumber shall be full width

Now, does this mean if you call the minimum size of 6" for the run of lumber your sawing, 90 % have to be at least 6", but some may be 6-1/4", but none under 6"?

Quote
the remaining ten percent may be up
to 1/4" scant in width.

and the remaining 10 % can be 5-3/4"?

Or is the minimum width for FAS 6" in the rule book and other grades have a minimum width as mentioned in the book?

Leave it to beaver to make it complicated.  :D

I can't give an opinion without the book to see the context of the statement or preamble.
Move'n on.

Offline WH_Conley

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2009, 05:12:53 PM »
Yer right  Donk. 6" is the minimium width for FAS. Other grades have a different minimium. 3" or wider for the other grades, but only 5% can be 3". Real clear? :D :D :D :D :D
Bill

Offline Larry

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2009, 05:57:29 PM »
Ive often wondered how that 10% rule works in real life.  The tally sheets where I sold were pretty straight forward...I dont know how a inspector would keep track.  They get in an unknown amount of lumber...do they keep track of each board that is a little scant...they would also have to keep track of each board right at 6"?

Or maybe they get 1,000 bf of random width lumber all FAS but end up with 100 board foot a little scant...could this be where the guy was coming from?

Maybe this could be a question for the Chief Inspector to clarify for us...the NHLA used to have a forum for just these type of questions.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Offline inspectorwoody

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2009, 10:44:42 PM »
Here it guys!  ;)

I ran across this post last night and even though I've inspected lumber now for 8 years,I'll admitt I questioned this one.

So I shot an email to a former classmate of mine who is now the instructor in Elkins,VA for the NHLA.

This is his quote from the e-mail:

Quote
It's 10% of the 6" boards in a load not 10% of the load. For example, if you had a load of 10,000 BF of green FAS/F1F and there was 3,000 BF of 6" boards (bds that are 5 3/4" to 6 1/2") you would be allowed 300 BF of boards that are scant of 6" NOT 1,000 BF which would be 10% of the entire load. It always surprises me how many folks misunderstand this rule.

 :)

Offline WH_Conley

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2009, 11:40:35 PM »
Woody, that is pretty much what I thought, but, if I was standing on a chain, looking a 10K, I am not sure I could remember how many boards were that close.
Bill

Offline beenthere

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2009, 11:50:13 PM »
Thanks Inspectorwoody.
Great to have you on the forum.  :)

Seems this rule would come into play mainly when/if a re-inspection happens, and not so much when inspecting lumber the first time.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2009, 06:25:00 AM »
In my earlier days of sawing I thought I might have a little problem with this.  When rules get tight, like in the current market, it can become a factor.  Especially if you are running small logs, like a lot of mills do.

To help offset the problem, I have changed my target size on the 6" to 6 1/8".  That gives me a little bit of play for the log to spring.  It also gives me a little more meat on my pallet stock and makes a more marketable product.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline Chico

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Re: Lumber grading
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2009, 10:50:10 AM »
If you grade enough you can look at your taly sheets and you'll be pretty close When I was grading full time I could tell you within 500 ft or so the mills cut that day and the % of common and better
Chico
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