Sawhorse or ponies - Which is best?

[Jim_Rogers]

That depends on the user and the job at hand.
Being 6' 2" tall I like a tall sawhorse to work my timber on:

This photo shows a set of tall saw horses (33" tall), a set of shorter saw horses (27") tall, and a set of ponies (18" tall).
Each set can be used to hold up the same timber for different jobs at hand.
As you can see in this photo the boring machine is on the timber on the ponies:

(Note the log ruler standing next to pony and horse. The shorter horse was move away.)

So you can see that the timber and boring machine on the 18" tall ponies make it the right height to sit on the boring machine and bore the holes for pegs or for mortises.

I use the tall set of horses when I'm working on a tenon or other joint where I want my work high enough so that I can use my chisels comfortably when just paring to the line and working the chisel by hand.

But when I have to pound on a chisel with a mallet such as this student is doing at a school workshop:


I like a sawhorse a little lower so that my arms are in the right position to strike the chisel with the mallet.

I read some where or heard some where that if you stand up straight and bend your arms so that your hands are straight out in front of you, so that your elbow makes a 90° angle (the shape of an L ), and you measure from your elbow to the ground/floor and subtract two or three inches, that this is the correct height for your work bench or counter.
If you use a procedure like this to determine the correct height for your workbench/counter then you can subtract the height of the timber and the length of the chisel and get a good working height for your saw horses.

The school in Maine where the last photo was taken uses cribs to place the timbers on. These cribs can be old timbers or other beams for the frame. They are usually placed on either ponies or cribbing blocks and then all the same type of timbers are placed in one area so they can all be worked on together.
In the above picture the student is working on a plate and he is chopping a shoulder.

You might have to experiment on the correct height for you until you get a comfortable one to work with. Jim

[Viking]

Yeah I like the same things as you, I'm also tall, 6'7", so i cant go with the small stuff, I'd get a sore back.

[blue_eyed_devil]

Table height (30")is good for most people. Waist height or higher is just too high for most jobs.
I-joist cut offs make great horses (light and strong)
I just add a cant strip cut at 16 degrees,  to either side of the bottom flange so that I can attach 2x4 legs cut at compounded 16 degree angles.Write you measurements down after you build the perfect horse, because you can build these horses in less than ten minutes if you know all the cuts.

[UNCLEBUCK]

hi jim ! was wondering if thats a home made boring machine or a millers falls . I found one on ebay for 450$ so I bought a milwaukee hog drill instead but sure like the millers falls way ,  nice pictures,thanks ! :P

[Jim_Rogers]

UNCLEBUCK:
When I took this boring machine to a timber framing workshop I was told by the instructor that it was one that was made in CT by James Swan and Company.
I got this from an old blacksmith friend of mine for $50, I'm not sure if he understood the value of this tool or not. We swapped lumber for it. But he didn't have any bits, but told me of another blacksmith friend of his that had some. I got four bits from him, swapped lumber with him also.
If using a power drill to bore holes or hog out mortises and you want to make sure your holes are going in straight get two speed squares and fasten them to a piece of 6" angle iron and it will stand by itself in the shape of an "L". Place the point of the corner near your hole or bit and this will help you to site the bit so that it's going in straight right to left and front to back. (Saw this tool being used at the recent barn raising in NH, and it worked great).
Jim

[UNCLEBUCK]

thanks jim !  I will try that. I been tryin to fasten the bubbles from my old log scriber to the drill with hose clamp and duct tape so I can just watch the level bubbles but I sure like pictures of the hand cranked boring machines ! as soon as winter comes I will be on the forum alot at night and hopefully posting pics too, I got busy sawing for a bit. :P  this timber framing is way different and alot of fun but I take my time until I get better at it !

[raycon]

Hey Jim I have a similar boring machine.
What do the end of your bits look like? (Tapered or straight)

The one I have looks like it takes a straight half inch  shank  with a flat ground to keep it from spinning in the "chuck". The flat would be held via the square headed set screw on the side of the "chuck". I want to put it to use and now need to track down some bits - probably start with ebay.

[Jim_Rogers]

Raycon:
My bits are straight shafted bits, some have flats on the side for the set screw some don't. I only have four.
Here is a shot of the other ends:



As you can see in this photo some of the lead screws are of different styles or different thread spacing. I was told the coarse thread is for softwoods and the fine thread was for hardwoods. That way a fine thread would pull the bit into the wood slower or less per turn to allow the bit wings to cut the wood and not bind up. Seemed to make sense to me. I have used both types of tips in both types of wood, and they both seemed to work OK. Good luck finding some bits. Some timber framers go to antique shops and buy T- handle auger bits and cut off the T-handle to get a 1/2" shank bit. But you'll pay more for a T-handled auger bit then you'll pay for a regular 1/2" shank bit. A regular bit brace bit has a 1/4" shank and usually can't be used in a boring machine. You could have someone turn you a sleeve to put in your boring machine to hold 1/4" shanks but I'm unsure how you'd hold the bits in the sleeve if you did. Maybe a machinist could figure that one out.
I've also seen a regular bit brace chuck adapted to fit into the chuck on a boring machine, so that the new or second chuck could use regular bit brace bits. The problem with this set up is that it makes the whole slide part of the boring machine longer and harder to use, but it can be done.
Jim

[raycon]

Jim - the turning sleeves sounds like a good idea.

I'm going give that a whack this weekend. I'm thinking turn a few sleeves and tack weld or braze in place. Its a low rpm thing the weld should'nt effect anything as long as I don't distort the shank.

Thanks.  

[Jim_Rogers]

Good luck and make sure the bit tip turns true, that's the most important thing.
If you come up against a knot in a piece of oak or some other hardwood and the bit binds up the shear pin on the crank handle should break first hopefully before the bit spins in the chuck. I had mine break once so inspect this and have a spare ready before a big job starts.
Another tip on using this style of boring machine. When you're at the bottom of your hole and ready to lift out using the lifting gear bar, turn your handles one turn in reverse to release your lead screw from it's grab on the bottom of the hole. It makes it so much easier to lift out.
Also, don't pull the bit out to clear the chips half way to the bottom. You'll loose your lead screws grab on the hole bottom and it's very hard to get it back. You shouldn't have to clear your chips until you finish your hole.
If you loose your downward motion of your bit because it's lead screw has lost it's grip on the bottom of the hole, have a friend use a push block and apply downward pressure onto your slide mechanism as you turn your handles until the screw grabs again and you'll be able to finish your hole.
And all through mortises should be bored half way from each side.
Jim

[raycon]

Thanks for all the info its very much appreciated.

 On the through mortise part boring to half the timber depth. Is that a friction thing - less work to drill halfway through because theres not as much of the bit  in the cut? Or is there more to it.

I did'nt know that was a shear pin. I figured it was just part of the assembly. I'll pick some spares up before I start. Once again thanks for the info.

[Jim_Rogers]

The usual procedure on a through mortise is to layout the outline of the mortise on both sides of the timber, making sure they line up. Then cut the layout lines with a utility knife, this cuts the fibers and helps prevent tear out on the faces that will show. Then mark a center line of the mortise and layout hole centers with a ruler or tape so that the bit doesn't bore to close to the sides or ends of the mortise. Then punch a start location on the center line for the auger bit of the boring machine to start at with an awl. Bore each end hole, and then the middles holes, of the mortise, first on one side of the timber. Then roll the timber over and bore in from the other side, on the similarly laid out mortise location. The reason that you should do this, to answer your question, finally, is to prevent the bit from wandering off line because of some unseen internal hazard, such as a knot. If a auger bit encounters a knot it can deflect off it's intended line and make the hole come out the other side of the timber in the wrong spot, outside your intended mortise location. Also, when the bit breaks threw the surface of the downward side it can "blow out" the grain and make it unsightly.
On holes where you need to bore threw, like peg holes, stop turning the handles as you feel the downward motion stop, because the threads of the lead screw have broken the surface of the underside. Then roll the timber over and finish the peg hole from the underside. The bit will cut a nice circle and won't "blow out" any grain and it will look sweet.
If need be have someone else watch the bottom of your timber for your bit's lead screw to break the surface and stop boring then.
All peg holes are bored from the layout face, and all pegs should be driven from the layout face.
Always, always, site a peg hole before pounding in a peg, to be sure the hole is OK first, whether it's draw bored or not.
Jim

[Jim_Rogers]

A forum member asked me if I had a drawing of the simple saw horse shown in the first few photos of this thread.

I didn't have one, but made one today as I got rained out at the mill.

Here is the drawing isometric view:



This horse is made out of 1x6 rough sawn pine lumber and is very strong due to the stretcher between the legs forming a "T" with the top piece. I've had hundreds of pounds of beams on mine.

I make them several different heights, and lengths.

If you'd like a copy of the drawing in pdf format drop me an email or private message and I'll email one to you.

Jim Rogers

[Jim_Rogers]

To make these saw horses I first cut out one pattern gusset. Then using that I draw out the others. As you draw out and/or cut out the gussets make sure you draw a center line on them, you'll need it for assembling.
Once you have your gussets, cut out all the other parts, the rest are all 90° cuts. Cut out 4 legs, the top, and the stretcher.
After you have all your parts cut, you're ready to assemble.
I start by attaching two legs to one gusset. Then another two legs to another gusset.
After you have two pairs of legs attached to a separate gusset you attach a pair to the center stretcher. You do this by placing the center stretcher up on edge and the pair of legs upside down on your bench. Screw or nail the gusset to the end grain of the stretcher making sure the stretcher is on the center line of the gusset. Once you have one pair of legs attached to the stretcher, attach the other set to the other end of the stretcher.
Then attach the outer gussets to the legs.
Lastly attach the top to the stretcher and gussets.
The "T" shape makes it very strong when assembled.
Jim Rogers