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Author Topic: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?  (Read 8431 times)

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Offline epiphoneprs

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Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« on: August 25, 2009, 08:44:05 AM »
I was told that using straight off-road diesel fuel would be a good thing in helping to keep the pitch off of the blade. I am new to sawmilling so I try everything I hear, especially if I think that someone knows what they are talking about. Is it possible that the straight diesel fuel is causing my v belts to wear too quickly or unevenly? I am experiencing alot of vibration/flutter in my blades. I use B-56 Gates belts. B-56 Goodyear belts are recommended but no one around here seems to have those. They also say that the Gates are just as good.

Offline Kansas

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2009, 09:58:59 AM »
The only thing we use for keeping pitch off is diesel fuel. In cottonwood, we don't have to use anything. In bur oak, we need a pretty steady stream. We have tried water, wiper fluid in the winter, water with pinesol, and in the end, we always come back to diesel. It simply does a better job for us. I have heard that the diesel will deteriorate your belts. If you use your mill every day, I think any deterioration on belts won't matter because blade breaking will eventually cut up the belts anyway, or if not that, they will get wore out from use. If you use your mill sparingly, then it might be that diesel would be a factor. I realize that diesel isn't recommended, or possibly enviromentally correct, but it works.
One thing we have noticed is that in bur (white) oak, you can run water and keep the pitch completely off, but the blade still goes through the wood better with diesel.
We did use biodiesel for a short while, and it worked as well. Problem is, biodiesel gels at way too high a tempature for Kansas winters.

Offline TblRxDave

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2009, 10:36:28 AM »
I use a  B-77 belt from NAPA on my mill. I don't know who makes them but they seem to work just fine.  My owners manual states "NEVER use flammable or petroleum based products in the lube tank". Soapy water or windshield washer fluid works best.That's what I use for all types of wood. As far as flutter is concerned there are a number of things to check. Is the blade riding on the band wheel? That is when the belt has lost it's crown or the belt is too far into the "v"groove of the band wheel. Replace the belt. Check belt tension, they tend to loosen from use. I always release tension after I use the mill to prevent flat spots in the belt. Next is proper blade tension. Not enough or excessive tension can cause flutter. I'm sure every mill is different and it took me a while to find the right torque to apply. Check the owners manual.
That's my two cents on the subject. The more you saw the more you will learn.
Dave.

Offline Bruce_A

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2009, 11:12:34 AM »
I have one customer that uses light weight hydraulic oil for blade lube.  He says it is water soluable.

Offline Magicman

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2009, 11:34:13 AM »
I try not to stray too far from manufacturer's recommendations.  A lot of research has gone into their decisions concerning belts and lube.  I'll also try to never make suggestions, but I don't mind sharing what I do.

Diesel cost over $2.00 per gallon.  I generally run 4 gallons of diesel (engine) and 4 gallons of blade lube per day.

For blade lube, I use a popular liquid automatic dishwasher soap.  I buy the 155 oz. bottle which cost about 10 bucks.  I remove the squirt spout and squeeze out a glug per gallon. ( about 2 oz.)  That makes about 75 gallons of blade lube.  It is really slick and does not foam.  Cost is about .50 per day!

The majority of my sawing is SYP, and I have no pitch buildup.


 



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Offline nas

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2009, 06:27:39 PM »

I remove the squirt spout and squeeze out a glug per gallon.


I only ever measured beer in glugs :D smiley_beertoast

As for blade lube, I use water with 1/4 cup of pinesol per gallon.
Better to sit in silence and have everyone think me a fool, than to open my mouth and remove all doubt - Napoleon.

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Offline Chico

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2009, 07:57:09 PM »
Find the cheapest liquid detergent you can find and mix it sparingly(I don't know how large your tank is) Diesel fuel will do several things It will cause fires it will ruin lbr placed in a kiln if too much gets on them and it will eat anything that resembles rubber and if EPA should ever see it you're in a bind (I've been that route) If you feel that diesel is the only thing that will work make a wick to lay on the saw so it will just leave a small film and not sling it everywhere I've sawed 50,000 ft with 2 gals using a wick system
jmo Chico
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Offline moonhill

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2009, 08:14:26 PM »
I like it Chico, I will have to try that wick thing.  What is the composition of the wick, rag tightly tied to a stick, leather, other suggestions? 

My drip tank is only half a gallon, it gets old adding the water mix.  I do like the diesel better after trying water plus.  I am satisfied with my half gallon tank of diesel set on the slightest drip, it last a couple of days if I remember to shut it off.  I don't like the smell of the new diesel.   They all have a place. 

Tim
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Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2009, 11:08:19 PM »
I run a Cooks mill that has solid metal wheels so the belts are not a problem for it...Cooks recomends diesel with their wick system...As Chico stated it don't take much to get the job done....I do use water every once in a while, an find that to do the same job I have to let the water just about pour instead of a lite drip....The water makes a bigger mess than the diesel...Tim
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Offline Chico

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2009, 02:46:49 AM »
You cah make one out of a kerosene heater wich or a thick cotton cloth folded sev timesor even a womans sanitary napkin (I know I know ) the trick to it is to have the wick touching the saw lightly and put a small opening feeding it I used a pitcock to adjust it you will have to experiment with it a little but you'll get it
Chico
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Offline Kansas

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2009, 06:25:49 AM »
Another trick you hear a lot about is using a windshield wiper pump, one of the newer types that you can adjust the pulse and flow.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2009, 06:58:19 AM »
I use half bar and chain oil and half diesel at a SLOW drip. I don't saw logs for making furniture.I only saw for my own use.Some claim it might stain the lumber.I have a valve that controls the flow.A drip every 3-4 seconds it all it takes.
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Offline RENOV8R

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2009, 07:29:14 AM »
Back in '05, I read a post about guys putting diesel and bar oil on to clear the pitch, and I thought, "why would you get that on the lumber...I'll find something else to use..."  It wasn't until I had run in to a real problem with pitch that I seriously took up the idea, but what I did was put the mixture into a windex spray bottle and tell ya what...it takes a very, very minimal amount of this stuff to clear pitch.  I engage the blade and I keep the bottle either next to the winch or I've made a hook next to the control panel that will hold the stuff.  Two squirts on "spray does the trick for a good 3 or 4 passes.

Offline Magicman

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2009, 08:30:37 AM »
RENOV8R, looks like you have been sawing for a while and have been a FF member for years, so WELCOME to "posting.... 8)   Myself, I didn't join, but lurked for years..... :(
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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2009, 07:11:27 AM »
A true wick will work like a siphen.The end of a wick dipped in diesel then run up above the level of the fuel and down to rub the blade works best,it leaves but a slight sheen on the blade no drip.The damage to the wood and envourment is greatly over stated.I use the wicks out of the old road pots their round about 1" because I have them, you could use lantern wick.Frank C.
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Offline Chico

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2009, 07:20:22 AM »
Bandmiller  I agree about the fuel not being a big prob on the enviroment unfortunately the EPAQ doesn't small mills prob never have to worry esp if they're not stationary but you let one of those asshooles come thru and see it it' hell to pay we payed almost 500,000$ and we weren't using it anymore but because the predessor had we had to pay for the removal of the eath the replacement etc I just throw that out to remind people to don't overdo it and have it slinging everywh ere and someone comes along and sees it and he tells ol joe blo and he tells someone else and finally some greenie get's ahold of it A contractor that we had hired to build an addition got us
Chico
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Offline Meadows Miller

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2009, 07:34:51 AM »
Gday

Ive used water with a good dose of dish washing liquid when sawing pine its worked for me for years on smaller mills like the jonsered and wm's i tryed diesel a couple of times but like whats been said with out a proper system on it you waste more tham you realy need  ;) Cooks has a drip system with wicks for about $90 bucks which would work well if you wanted to runn it all the time if for sawing pine  ;)

Ive only used diesel full time on larger rigs (8 to 12" bands) doing 30-40 mbft per shift and use to go through about 10-15 gal per day  ;)

Chico whata Slap in the face Mate  :o you gave him work and he got you in the 7!@#%^&*   :o :) ::) i hate idiots like that  :( >:(

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Offline backwoods sawyer

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2009, 06:15:13 PM »
Ive only used diesel full time on larger rigs (8 to 12" bands) doing 30-40 mbft per shift and use to go through about 10-15 gal per day  ;)
Regards Chris

Different mills have different ways of doing the same thing.
Even running 12 band saws we ran straight water for a lot of years, then we added a gallon canister to each of the quads that held a concentrated detergent that dripped in with the water spray and a gallon would last 2 weeks and those saws ran 22 hours a day 7 days a week. About the only time we would get a pitch build up on the wheels, was when a sprayer would plug up. When it did build up, a few squirts of diesel was all that was needed to clean the wheels.
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Offline Meadows Miller

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2009, 12:07:26 AM »
Gday

Backwoods at that mill they where using a 20L container with a small elec pump with a switch that was in each headrig console some ppl flicked the swich more than others :D
 ;) I think they where mainly running it to reduce the wear on the block guides in that mill they had two headrigs and three resaws there the 10 15 gal was just a rough guess at overall useage the way i see it its an expensive way of doing it but thenagain they had about a 3 million dollar sawmill so 50or60 bucks a day in diesel isnt much mate ;) :D :D

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Offline backwoods sawyer

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Re: Diesel Fuel for blade lube?
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2009, 01:58:17 AM »
You are right about that. You put 12 different sawyers in the same saw cab with a switch and each one will use it a different amount per shift. In fact, the day shift sawyers were wanting more control over the carriage, so I had the night shift electrician wire up a dummy switch that just went to a counter, and labeled it 70% slow down. They were all happy as can be with that switch and day shift used it as many as 10,000 times per shift. Flex crew used it considerably less at around 1,200 times per shift and night shift only used it about a dozen times per shift. We left the button hooked up that way for over a month collecting data. Then figured out the amount of production loss that would have occurred had the button actually been hooked up before presenting the info to the Perforex team. Three of the other mills had the slow down buttons already installed and after reviewing their production, and quality control numbers they disconnected the buttons in there saw cabs with out letting the sawyers in on it and found an increase in production as well. Then the slow down buttons were removed.

We had our lube system set up to activate for a variable amount of time at varying intervals and the saw filers had full control over it rather then the sawyers. The reason behind that is the sawyer never seen the saw when it was being benched or shaved down the block guides so he did not see the end result of the amount of lube that he was using, where the saw filler could see the changes in saws by the amount of lube being used. The sawyer did however have a good view of the spray nozzles and when a saw was not performing he or she could see if that was the reason for it. The resaws ran on the same set up.   
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