antifreeze in oil 353 DD

FFLM · December 08, 2009, 06:23:32 PM

Looking for a little help from all the timberjack guys, I have a 208 w/ a 353 that I picked up this spring. Today I was pulling some tops and stalled the machine. Tried to restart and it just cranked. Checked the oil and found it to be milkey, and no antifreeze in the radiator. The temp guage never spiked but I guess that with out coolant it wouldnt. I let the machine cool down for about two hours and it then started, so I limped it back to the landing. I am guessing that my issue is a head gasket. I hope that I have not trashed the motor from running it with the thinned out oil, as I said at when I stalled it, it would not start till it cooled. When I limped it back to the landing it seemed to run fine but who knows????

Any help would be great.

Thanks
FFLM

Mark K · December 08, 2009, 07:17:06 PM

Probably a cracked head or a hole in a sleeve. Detroits dont have head gaskets, they have a ring that sets around the top of each sleeve and a big oring around the outer edge of the head. It isn't that bad to pull the head. Have you ever been in a detroit? You have to have specail tools to reset the injectors and the rack when you tear them down. Was it presssurizing the radiator or were you losing coolant out the overflow?

cuznguido · December 08, 2009, 09:05:58 PM

Those things on top of the sleeves are in fact the head gaskets. If you rebuild or replace the sleeves make sure you check the depth on each and every one of them. If there is too big a variance in the depth between any two adjacent ones you need to use a different spacer under the sleeve top lip, or a shim under there. Check your manual for the proper dimensions on these things because if they are off you will be doing the job again. If you overheated that thing you probably cracked a head, but if your lucky it may only be a head gasket. Detroit's are notorious for this. There is indeed a chance that you cracked a liner, but chances are it's the head or gasket.

mahonda · December 08, 2009, 09:19:21 PM

We are currently having ours rebuilt it was in a prentice loader. So far everything that could go wrong has. Dad said he must have *pithed off the shipping gods, every part has to come across country and not one on time. supposed to be done two weeks ago still on the hoist as of tonight. But hopefully back in tomorrow, after i think about seven grand. I know this is no help just whinning and i feel your pain too. And the rest of my equipment wouldn't start yesterday it was about 18 below zero on the job. Gotta love this game 8)

timberjack240 · December 11, 2009, 12:02:03 AM

we were in t shirts last we supposed to be neg's tonite .. my water pump is leakin i put a gal of antifreeze in. it smelled like rotella motor oil .. liek detergent or sumthin .. notw theres some black lookin stuff on the top layer in the radiator .. i dont kno what it shook loose cant be good :

beenthere · December 11, 2009, 12:17:18 AM

Don't think I'd run that engine until finding out what it is and where it is coming from. Good luck with the outcome. Hopefully just a new pump.

240b · December 11, 2009, 07:35:34 AM

Oil in coolant not as bad as coolant in oil. Niether one good.

timberjack240 · December 11, 2009, 04:12:34 PM

it doesnt rele look like oil as much as like a film it dont have all the pretty colors floating ontop i thin kthat antifreeze might of had sumthin in it to clean the system or sumthin doesnt appeatr to be gettin worse.. def the antifreeze because i dont use rotella oil .. if i got rotella in it i bigger problems ;D

Mark K · December 11, 2009, 05:31:44 PM

Could be a oil cooler problem. Crack base plug in morning to see if any antifreeze is in the base. Mine had the cooler go bad and it was pumping oil into the antifreeze. Not hard to change just a bad place to get to inside the frame. I have been running shell rotella oil in mine for the past ten years. I change the oil every 100 hours and it runs ruffly thirty hours a week. Have you heard bad things about rotella?

timberjack240 · December 11, 2009, 05:53:56 PM

i meant problems as in im not puttin it in there.. but kno i havent heard anyhting bad about rotella .. i heara its good stuff. i was told taht cummins only holds up to their gaurantee with 3 kinds of oil and rotella was one. i was told its a high detergant oil keeps engines clean tahts what is run in the log truck thas a 425 hp cat .. and i believe also that rotella makes john deeres oil but thats what i heard. dont kno for sure. in the skidder we run john deere 15 40 or 50 plus b/cthe dealer is 10 min and you can get it by the barrel or pennzoil gold 15 40 i beleive. b/c its cheap and seems to do ok . we dont spend a lota on oil it jsut runs rite back out of that old detroit ;D.. i redid the oil coler before gaskets were leakin over a gallon a day i did get a lil oil inthe water i think that was jsut what spilled. and that plug is rigged on ours and im not messin w it cause the peice inthe middle fell out when i put it together and couldnt find it and the machine was needed the next day so i cranked it down the whole way and siliconed the outside just for reassurance till i get a new one but like i said i ran it it doesnt seem to be gettin worse and there no water inthe oil and rite now its to cold to go expeirimenting

Mark K · December 11, 2009, 06:21:12 PM

I run 15w-40 in mine. Mine had that same problem with the gasket behind the cooler leaking, started out as a slight drip then to 5 gallons a week. With the price of oil, it didnt take long before I decided to tear it apart and fix it. I think detriots like to mark there territory anyway. :D

240b · December 11, 2009, 06:37:39 PM

Back when I had a 353 the engine machanic @ the timberjack dealership (who worked there since 1967 and rebuilt probably hunreds of detroits motors) told me only to run straight grade oil (ie. 30wt )in it. Had something to do with it being a 2 stroke engine. ran ursa 10 or 30 wt. never had any of the problems with that motor and my friends son is running it now. just my .02

ford62783 · December 11, 2009, 06:45:39 PM

just rebuilt my uncles detroit last month had same problem it cot about 6500 to rebuild andtook forever to get parts from all over detroits r good engines til they break down good luck but im asumeing a cracked sleeve or a head either way if the sleeve is cracked dnt try and do it cheap just rebuild and at least u know it will be good if its the head be sure to check sleeves as well

FFLM · December 11, 2009, 08:28:48 PM

Thanks all, I am planning on taking the motor out and having it checked out. We have a local guy that works on mostly the 200 series and not much else. I have been told he can rebuild a detroit with his eyes closed, so ill let him do it. He said it sounded like a sleave, gasket or head.

ScottAR · December 11, 2009, 11:57:43 PM

I've always heard to run straight weight oil as well.
The local guru says Delo 100 is the most like OEM spec.
weight varies by weather...

ford62783 · December 12, 2009, 12:11:28 AM

i have heard the same thing yet my grandfather didnt do that and the motor is same age as me and still will run dnt know how feeding it kendall all those years but i guess the 10-40 did the job

trim4u2nv · December 12, 2009, 01:11:28 AM

We had the same problem with an isuzu diesel truck. Turns out the cooling loop for the transmission which passed through the radiator was leaking. Once we got rid of the red oil black oil kept surfacing. The oil cooler in the block was also leaking also.

timberjack240 · December 12, 2009, 05:15:04 PM

it doesnt take that long to get a detroi done around here we have 3 dealers taht have multple detoits for timeberjack frnklins andtree farmers ready to go .. there shrink wrapped waiting to be exchanged. basically it only takes the time to get yours out drive tere load the new one putit in and your goin.. dyno tested and everything and the one is a genious basically is a detroit man his card said detroit specialist .. other brands welcome ;D

mahonda · December 12, 2009, 08:47:42 PM

That would be nice to pick it up that fast. But i think it would be more expensive for me to drive there from oregon. but we got it fired up today and so far so good "knock on wood" fingers still crossed that it keeps running for another gazillion hours.

C5C Tree Farmer · December 13, 2009, 12:53:06 AM

The 353 in my Tree Farmer put antifreeze in the oil one time. I first noticed it as white froth on the oil filler cap. Had it hauled back to my shop where I installed a reman cylinder head. Back to the woods ready to makeup for unplanned down time only to have the white froth reappear a couple days later!

Finally found my problem by removing the airbox cover...the lower sleeve o-rings had disintegrated and the antifreeze was running down the lower half of the sleeve into the oil pan. Ended up doing an in-frame there in the gravel pit where I had my landing.
This happened about 6 years ago...Detroit 53 parts were just a 1 trip run to Duluth MN. then.
The engine still runs great.