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Grappling with logs and other things..

Started by Bibbyman, October 18, 2003, 06:28:36 PM

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Bibbyman




At the Mid-West Forest Ind. Show last month Mary and I visited with Erik Lund.  He builds a super strong grapple with a Bobcat interface.  We came back on Saturday and brought one home.

I thought it would snap right on the Terex and it did.  But it wouldn't snap open and closed without two hoses made up about 2' long with Bobcat style flat quick connectors.

No problem,  I'd just stop by my local tractor dealer that handles Gale loaders and have them make me up a pair.  Nothing works right.  They had connectors that would work but the thread on the back side needed a couple of adapters to get it to the right size to fit 1/2"NPT where it connected to the Lund.  They could cobble up a combination of connectors but the cost was prohibitive.  I'd just try the Farm and Home store.  Nope.  Didn't have that combination either.  Tried the local heavy equipment dealer – yep,  had them but with some British standard thread on the back side that would require adapters that were expensive and they didn't have.  Called a hydraulic supply and replair shop – they knew what I was talking about and had to fix someone else up with some connectors but they didn't stock those style.  Made a couple of other calls with no positive results.

Finally!,  Got to an equipment dealer that had a vast array of connectors and were very knowledgeable about the topic.   They fully understood the requirements but ask,  "Do you have the NEW Bobcat standard or the OLD Bobcat standard connectors?"  How do I know?  I had to bring in a sample the next day to match them up.  It only took a week of looking but we did manage to get hoses made with the right connectors.

That evening I attached the Lund and installed the hose and hooked them up.  Oh buy!  A new toy!  Not so fast ....    It would snap open smartly and then fall shut slowly.  It would clamp on something but then loose it's grip as soon as the valve went to center.  I first thought there may be air in the line but I bled out some air and it really didn't act like that.  

I e-mailed my Terex dealer and asked him to contact Terex and ask them if the auxiliary valve on the Terex had an open center valve – thus did not hold pressure when in the neutral position.  He e-mailed me right back saying he was 99.9% sure it had a closed center valve and that the grapple most probably had a leaking cylinder..  I didn't think this was the case so I tried the grapple again and when it was full open,  I jumped out and pulled one hydraulic connector.  The grapple stopped it's fall and there was no sign of creep in it.  

Back to the dealer.  He sent out a technician to check the Terex.  Yep,  it had an open valve.  They now called Terex and they told them,  Yep, that's the way we send them out.  Got to have a flow control valve mounted on each attachment.

I could have done the work myself but didn't have the time.  We sent the Terex home with them and they had it back the next afternoon.

So far,  the Lund grapple has worked as advertised.  We've used it to move logs but have also used it to pull stumps, trees, steel T fence posts,  gate posts,  and pick up chunks on the log yard.

Link to more pictures and info on Lund grapple

Lund Grapple
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

ElectricAl

Bibbyman,

Like the tine bottom grapple ;D

We have a Thomas brand bucket grapple.

Here are a couple of shots Linda took before a match got thrown on a pile of Walnut edgings.






Linda and I custom saw NHLA Grade Lumber, do retail sales, and provide Kiln Services full time.

GAV64

Bibbyman,
I totally understand your plight, it has happen to me often regarding hydraulics and hydraulic fittings NOTHING IS STANDARDIZED! It seems that every manufacturer wants you to be captive to their parts or you haved to spend countless hours(like you did) running around to countless stores trying to gerry-rig the thing together. I bought a unit like yours from a company on ebay "Piranah Grapple" it has worked great moving logs, large rocks and unsplit firewood. I especially like running it down my woods road about 6" deep plucking up the rocks that seem to constantly grow out of the earth, makes for a smoother ride. I use a gehl skid steer (short wheelbase) not the best machine in the woods but it does alot of things well. I usually make my own attachments but this one seemed a bit complex, had enough trouble with the arc of the backhoe bucket, my next project will be small rotator grapple,( saw one on another post) cant see over the root grapple to load the mill, dont want to crash into it, I'll post some pictures when i am done, anyway all my fittings are now standardized.  

Bibbyman

Yea,  being able to go around chomping and munching stuff is pretty good therapy.



Here is a better picture of the underside of the Lund grapple.  

The center tang is at least 1" thick and the others are 5/8" or 3/4".  The bottom set of tangs are tied together through the 'heel' by a large tube about 4" diameter by being welded all the way around both sides.  You can't see from this picture that the top tangs are also tied together through the center by 2x4 tube steel. There is a heavy 1x4 plate that runs across the tangs top and bottom lip.  

One of my old friends at the show also looked hard at the Lund but didn't like the idea of the plates running across the top and bottom lips.  Erik explained they added a lot of strength to the assembly and made it about impossible to bend or break a tang.  

I've found the plates make it easier to pick up smaller odd shaped objects and do things like pulling posts or picking up a pole just by the end.  Mary was using it yesterday evening rearranging logs that were mixed.  I was bucking some up to improve them and knocking off extra knots, etc.  She came back around and spotted a knot on the lot about the size of a serving bowl.  She stopped for a second and dropped the grapple over it and picked it up.  She had a satisfied smile on her face. :)

The open tang bottom won't handle loose stuff like sand, sawdust but I think with the plates across the top and bottom lip it will handle stuff like straw, small brush, landscape mulch, etc.  

Hi GAV64,

We looked hard (at pictures) of several swivel grapples and they would work great for unloading those "drop-down" trailers and such.  We've not tried this grapple on that task yet but hope it works better than trying to poke them out with forks or having to use a chain and skidding tongs.

I think somebody like Hud-Son sells just the grapple,  heads, swivels, etc.  So you could start with some store bought parts and build your boom yourself.

Please keep us updated with your progress.  
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

woodmills1

thats quite the working machine and the grapple looks like a tough one.  Hydraulic fittings can drive you nuts i am still trying to get one hose made for my tractor when payeur added the fluid cooler the line size was upgraded from Kiotis original dia.  Then I added the FEL but only 2 of the three larger lines had correct plumbing, so I had to use one of the smaller dia lines in the FEL kit.  The lifting capacity of the FEL is ok but the grapple on the trailer lost some oomph and is a little slower.  I have tried 3 places so far but non of them were equiped with the right metric threads to make the larger hose work.  









James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

oldsaw

I'm normally not the jealous type Bibby, but that Terex rig is just getting way too cool.

Have a good one,

Mark
So many trees, so little money, even less time.

Stihl 066, Husky 262, Husky 350 (warmed over), Homelite Super XL, Homelite 150A

Buzz-sawyer

Hi GAV64
Hey welcome to the forum!I
noticed in your post you said......... I usually make my own attachments but this one seemed a bit complex, had enough trouble with the arc of the backhoe bucket, my next project will be small rotator grapple,..
I build equipment also and would really like to see what youve built ...I built my entire saw mill and have pics of that here....
Don
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

ElectricAl

The main reason we bought our Grapple is to transport cut firewood slabs to the burners.

While the slabs are still in the cairrer I use a Stihl MS440 to cut the slabs to 36" lenghts. Then lift the carrier up with the forks. This years pile is around 50' x 70' x 10'

Digging into the dry side.





Processing Firewood can be enjoyable with the right equipment ;D



Linda and I custom saw NHLA Grade Lumber, do retail sales, and provide Kiln Services full time.

Sawyerfortyish

Bibbyman I met Eric lund at Boonville N.Y. Didn't have to sell me on that grapple I can see how well made it is. I would have bought one on the spot but I just spent bank roll on a mulch grinder. Oh well theres always next year ;)

Bibbyman

We run our slabs through our Blockbuster firewood processor and up an elevator into a box with 4x6 runners about 5' long, 40' wide and 3' deep.  It'll hold at least as much as a small PU when heaped up.     We then transport it to the front porch with the Terex.  We can park 3 boxes at a time and still have room. This year we can move the boxes to the front porch in a heated cab!!  How we're talkin! High tech – red neck!!!

As Opie says,  "If I'd knowed then what I know now,  I would have did then what I'd like to do now – but can't."  He was talking about missed opportunities in his love life.  But if I'd known I was going into the sawmill business,  I would have installed an outside wood furnace in the house we built in 82.  Our house is earth contact with vaulted ceilings in most of it and has no real place for ductwork.  

Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Captain

I too met Erik (and his wife)  this year, but in Bangor, ME.  Their display was next to the Peterson display.  On the final day, I helped Chris Browne from Peterson cut a bunch of pine for Erik.  He and his equipment were being used by many at the show to setup and move logs as well as remove slabs.  Great people and equally great products.

Captain  

DanG

DanG it, Bibbyman and Al!  Y'allses wifes has shore got some spiffy playtoys.  I hope my wife don't see none of this, or I'll be in hock up to my elbows. >:(

 :D :D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Bibbyman

Sure beats a bucksaw,  axe and wheelbarrow now don't it? :D

The more you get into sawmill business you find your spending a lot of time moving material – the good,  the bad,  the ugly.  A blower,  an elevator, a loader, etc. all makes it a lot more efficient.  
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

ElectricAl

When you go to select a grapple, it's nice to have independent grapples.
Clamping an uneven load is quick and easy.

Holds tight

Until a mouse runs by


Linda and I custom saw NHLA Grade Lumber, do retail sales, and provide Kiln Services full time.

pappy

you boys and ya big toys :D :D :D

a grapple ? I gots one and a half hands left  :'( wheelbarrow I gots tree

We only do 12 cords a fire wood fer all the heatn' we gots ta do round here ::) and we do it with just a johns-a-red  630 super, a splitter, and a rusty ole peck-up  ;D

but it must be nice ta have da big toys, some day I'll gets me a real job  :'(  


"And if we live, we shall go again, for the enchantment which falls upon those who have gone into the woodland is never broken."

"Down the Allagash."  by; Henry Withee

ElectricAl

Ever been driving your Skid Loader down the road when here comes that friendly neighbor that waves ::)




I got the solution for you.





Give her a Grapple Wave ;)











Linda and I custom saw NHLA Grade Lumber, do retail sales, and provide Kiln Services full time.

SawInIt CA

ElectricAl

THose ar on a regular bucket? That looks like very helpful.  Did you make them? I have always dreamed of doing the grapple wave :D :D

SawInIt CA

Oops..I guess I should have read the post better.

Bibbyman

Cool wave E-Al...

If I get a chance to get the grapple back on our's,  I'll see what else it can pick up..

 8)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

ElectricAl

Here is what I had my eye on before the deal of the century came along.

Priced at $2,700 and built 65 miles from here.
Built by a sawyer for other sawyers ;D
Linda and I custom saw NHLA Grade Lumber, do retail sales, and provide Kiln Services full time.

Bibbyman

I know those Blockbuster guys,  they build top notch stuff.  

The Lund and the Blockbuster grapple look very similar.  I'd have to take a closer look,  but I'd say the Lund has a stronger design – needed or not.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

ElectricAl

Bib,

The Terex can lift twice the weight of our JD, you'll need the extra beef ;)

Linda and I custom saw NHLA Grade Lumber, do retail sales, and provide Kiln Services full time.

Bibbyman

Well,  our Terex may be rated at twice the lift on paper but I think the skid-steer machines are underrated on paper because of tip safety factor.    

The Terex has a wider stance and much longer wheel base – making it harder to go BOINK,  over on it's face.  The Terex can lift and handle 500 bf of grade walnut with a good bit of comfort.  I'm sure we've loaded out bundles of say 700 bf of oak but wanted to be careful and not jostle around with it.  The largest log we've handled and sawn,  was a 10' sycamore that sawed out well over 500 bf.  How does this compare to some of the largest skid-steer?

The Lund grapple weighs in at some 800 lbs. And Erik says that's some 200 lbs lighter than any of grapples of similar design.  That plus the way you bight down on logs,  put the center of gravity of the log about 2' further out than if you used the forks and let the log roll back against the backboard.  Even if you get the log well back in the jaws,  it's still further out than it would have been on the forks.  It's been our experience that this cuts down on the weight of log we can easily handle with the Terex + Lund grapple by maybe 10%.  But still it'll lift most any single log we have and a good many times a couple two – three smaller saw logs.


The Terex TX51-19 lifting a red oak log 14' long and something around 30+ dia little end.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

ElectricAl

Linda and I custom saw NHLA Grade Lumber, do retail sales, and provide Kiln Services full time.

ElectricAl

Bibbyman,

We had a nice lady stop by to quiz us about the Grapple.

She told me that she is using forks on a loader to move all types of tree parts. Root balls, saw logs, fire wood, and tops.

We walked up to the Skid Loader Garage and I slid the door up.


I turned to say something and her expression said it all

She decided that speed and safety could be accomplished with a new grapple for her loader ;)




                                        8)




                                         8)



Norm get the checkbook out ;D it's time ;)



                                          :D




                                           :D
Bib,
Did I mention how well a Grapple stirs a compost pile?



Linda and I custom saw NHLA Grade Lumber, do retail sales, and provide Kiln Services full time.

Norm

Boy that is nice, we use our front end loader with forks to do everything with but I tried to save a few bucks and bought an off brand loader. Long story short is I've already sprung it. When we get a new one the grapple will be one of the attachments. ;)

Patty

Yep Al sold me on the grapple. WOW.  :o  How have Norm & I survived this long without one! I was describing to Al how moving the trees with forks was such a drag, not to mention dangerous. Especially when I'm driving. ;D   My excuse is I can't see the forks while I'm on the tractor, Norm says I need to learn where the forks are at all times while not seeing them. Yea  ::), that's gonna happen real soon!

New toys are always fun. Al & Linda had some way cool equipment.
Women are Angels.
And when someone breaks our wings....
We simply continue to fly ........
on a broomstick.....
We are flexible like that.

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