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Author Topic: using woodmizer sharpener and setter  (Read 3830 times)

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Offline LeeB

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using woodmizer sharpener and setter
« on: November 09, 2003, 11:31:07 AM »
Hi all. I recently bought a used sharpener and setter. Got the sharpener set up and running but can't get it to follow the same profile as the blades I have. I suspect I don't have the right cam. Is tere a cam availible to use on lennox blades? also have no clue whatsoever as to how the setter works. HELP!!!!! ??? Thanks for any help you can give. LeeB
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline BBTom

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Re: using woodmizer sharpener and setter
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2003, 02:07:11 PM »
I will give this a shot..  If your blades have a 7/8" pitch, then you could probably sharpen them with the WM.  They make a couple cams that I know of, One for 9 degree and one for 10 degree hook angles.  There is a bit of difference in the angle of the back of the tooth.  any blade you sharpen on a WM sharpener will eventually assume the WM profile.  HINT.. Look at the tip of your teeth with a magnifying glass,  IF there is any hint of a flat spot on the tip of the tooth, it is NOT sharp. It took me too long to admit that I could not see good enough with my naked eyes to know if a blade is sharp, you CANNOT feel the difference.

Setter... The setter should be set up so that the tip of the tooth is directly in the middle of the measuring pad. I always start at the weld, so I know when I have been around.
1. Clean the blade.. then
2. clean the blade.. Do not sharpen first.  always set first.. the sharpening leaves a burr on the back side of the blade and that throws off your set.  
3. crank the handle part way, it pushes the spring loaded pins against the blade, stop before plunger hits tip of blade, and the gauge should show the set in that tooth. (remember blades have a three tooth pattern one tooth left one tooth right one tooth middle) make sure you are measuring a tooth that is set in the direction of the gauge.
4. IF it needs more set, then crank handle until gauge is 15-30 thou over what you want ( you will get the hang of how much to push it after a while, try not to overdo but each blade has its own hardness and amount of "backlash"), back off all the way and go to step 3.
5. if you haven't gotten to the weld, move blade three teeth and go to step 3.
6. take blade off and flip it inside out ( carefully!!!) set blade on setter with weld near plunger and go to step 3.

OK guys, give me heck, but I tried to think of everything, I feel certain that I left something out.
2001 LT40HDD42RA with lubemizer, debarker, laser, accuset. Retired, but building a new shop and home in Missouri.

Offline Bibbyman

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Re: using woodmizer sharpener and setter
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2003, 03:00:31 PM »
A neighbor called me to come over and help him figure out what he was doing wrong sharpening his blades. (He got a sharpener along with his used mill)  The teeth kept getting shorter and shorter.  

I took one look and could see at once that the grinding wheel was worn down until it was too small.  He had it adjusted down as far as it would go but the grinding head was hitting the frame instead of letting it follow the cam.  

Hed been re-sharpening the same blades a couple of time like this and had cut the gullet dept down to about 1/8 and was still not grinding the gullet bottom.  

We put on a new grinding disk and I shaped it for him.  We ran a blade around a couple of cycles to show that it was not cutting to the bottom of the gullet and bringing the tooth height back up to where it needed to be.

Just something else to check.   :P
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
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Offline LeeB

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Re: using woodmizer sharpener and setter
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2003, 03:55:42 PM »
Thanks Bibbyman. Pretty much what I thought on the setter.
When sharpening, I get a good face grind to the bottom of the gullet them the wheel lifts as the blade advances and takes a tiny bit off the tip of the backside. Is it supposed to grind all of the gullet and back? this is on woodmiser blades. the sharpener is a 96 model. have the blades changed shape since then? It came with four different cams. none of them marked. Already destroyed one blade figuring out how to set face cut and back cut trying all four cams. No loss on the blade. It was a junk blade. I realize it is hard to try and teach someone this online, but I really do appreciate the help. LeeB
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline BBTom

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Re: using woodmizer sharpener and setter
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2003, 04:13:59 PM »
LeeB
That is not uncommon when you have the wrong cam, if you look on the cam you should see somewhere on the face of it a stamped number like 9 30 or 10 29, I think (guess) that refers to the hook angle and back angle. Try a different cam and see what happens.

2001 LT40HDD42RA with lubemizer, debarker, laser, accuset. Retired, but building a new shop and home in Missouri.

Offline LeeB

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Re: using woodmizer sharpener and setter
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2003, 04:21:25 PM »
guess all four of em are wrong. same thing with all of em. will it really make that much difference? LeeB
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline LeeB

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Re: using woodmizer sharpener and setter
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2003, 04:23:58 PM »
Oops, just reread previous posts. Thanks, BB Tom.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline Percy

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Re: using woodmizer sharpener and setter
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2003, 11:33:53 PM »
Heya Lee.
There are several things in addition to what has been already mentioned to try/check/configure. If your blades are at a 10 degree hook angle(the amount the face of the tooth "leans" forward), you should probably use the 10/30 cam. You must also check that the sharpening head/grinding wheel is also set at 10 degrees in relation to the blade clamp. There is a bolt head at the back of the grinder that takes a 3/4 inch wrench. Loosen this bolt and using the 10 degree template that hopefully came with your sharpener, set the correct angle by placing the template on the blade clamp under the grinder motor(housing runs perpendicular to the grinding wheel).
Next would be aligning the blade clamp to the grinding wheel. You would use the alignment tool that hopefully came with the sharpener(each sharpener has its own specific tool and are not supposed to be interchageable from unit to unit). It is a metal bracket affair that has a slot in it that fits over the arbour where the sharpening wheel goes. You install this piece as if it were a sharpening wheel. The three bolts in a triangular arrangment  that are at the other end of the bracket should all touch the blade clamp at once. To adjust, loosen the bolt(3/4 inch wrench) at the bottom of the bladeclamp and adjust till all three bolts are touching the blade clamp at the same time. Chances are this adjustment shouldnt be necessary unless the unit had been dissassembled for cleaning or dropped/abused etc.

After all this is done, you would put a blade on the unit as if you were going to sharpen it. Using your blade as a guide, with the grinding wheel spinning but the blade NOT advancing,
take your wheel dressing stone(hope you got that too ;D)and grind down the lowermost coner of the grinding wheel so its angle is the same as the back of the teeth on your blade. keep grinding the wheel untill the angle takes about 60% of the grinding wheel thickness. This  ratio/angle should be maintained with minimal deviance as this is what controls the tooth height. As you sharpen blades, you will notice this angle you just configured get smaller as the wheel wears. Conversly, if you increase the amount of the "angle" it will make for taller teeth.

One thing to watch out for on your setter is keeping the gullet of the blade slightly higher than the blade clamping blocks. A left over burr can throw things out of whack if you dont watch for this... I learned the hard way..heh.

I would strongly suggest you get a owners manual/instruction book from Woodmizer as I probably goofed a time or two on this post....
Good luck and happy sharpening ;D
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Offline woodmills1

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Re: using woodmizer sharpener and setter
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2003, 04:08:04 AM »
When I got my sharpener and setter as part of my purchase of a used machine both were severley out of adjustment.  Using Woodmizer manuels I was able to get the sharpener to perform by setting the tooth face angle to 10 degrees, adjusting the plastic stops on the holding arms to allow smooth rotation of the blade, grinding the wheel to the proper configuration, and cleaning the rust off of the blade clamp so that it would give the proper amount of tension.

As for the setter it took some time to master and set it up but it was still very inconsistent with use.  After contacting Woodmizer I found that an upgrade was made to my 93 model.  Replacing a plastic tube/busing with a metal more positive part.  I still hate to set blades but they are very consistent now.  If I am careful I get 1 or 2 thousanths of variation.

Yes, set first with clean blades.  I also turn them inside out first so as to end up with the correct orientation for sharpening.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Offline LeeB

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Re: using woodmizer sharpener and setter
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2003, 05:01:31 AM »
Percy, I don't guess the alignment jig tor the blade clamp came with it.Will hav to check again. Got the angle set alright on the motor. I really think my problem is wrong cams. Are they very expensive? Will have to contact wood mizer and see exactly what blades I have been getting. Dot the manual, but don't recal seeing about the blade clamp jig. more studying needed.
Wodmills, everything was fairly clean and in good shape. I think I have all the things yu mentioned taken care of. Stilll as of yet haven't tried to tackle the setter. will work on that today. No manual with the setter though. guess my best beet is to give WM a call today. Is the coolant additive really nessacery or will water alone be enough? really good input guys. thanks for all the help. LeeB
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: using woodmizer sharpener and setter
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2003, 02:54:54 PM »
This is for any of you who are new to sharpening your own blades.
When you place your blade into a WM sharpener, before you turn on the grinder motor, turn on the advance motor and let it push one tooth up until it's in line with the stone. You can regulate how fast this happens with the variable feed control knob. Do it somewhat slowly. Then with the grinder motor shut off reach in with your finger and rotate the grinder stone back and forth as the motor lowers with the cam advancing action. Do it slowly at first until you get the hang of it. You can feel how hard or tight the stone will be rubbing the tooth. If the stone doesn't touch the tooth adjust your push arm to make it shorter.
If the stone sits on top of your tooth adjust the push arm to make it longer.
Once you've got the push arm adjusted so that the stone just barely rubs the tooth, adjust the depth the grinder dips into the blade so that it cleans out the gullet.
As mentioned the stone needs to be shaped properly to the grind out the gullet and up the back side of the next tooth. You might have to dress your stone, and then shut the grinder motor off again, to get things right.
When all is adjusted and shaped correctly that is what should happen, according to the book.
And this can all be checked before the grinder is turned on and actually cuts any teeth. This way you won't ruin one tooth as you adjust all your settings for the current blade.
As a blade gets older, and it has been sharpened a few times these settings will change, and you have to reset the push arm and the depth of cut needed to each blade, each time with the grinder motor shut off.

Good luck with your sharpening.
Jim
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Offline Stephen

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Re: using woodmizer sharpener and setter
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2003, 04:38:50 PM »
LeeB, I use the coolant fluid in small amounts with water. I also add some radiator fluid to reduce rusting.
The last few boxes of blades I bought from woodmizer required a new cam. I think it was about $40 but never quite ground the gullets, the stone starts to rise after the face grind. I filed the cam a bit and this helped some.
I wasn't too concerned because I get about 15 sharpenings form each blade.
Stephen
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Offline sparks

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Re: using woodmizer sharpener and setter
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2003, 07:50:36 AM »
If you'll email me your address I'll be happy to get you the manuals you need at no charge.   rlauman@woodmizer.com

Thanks
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Offline LeeB

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Re: using woodmizer sharpener and setter
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2003, 08:22:28 PM »
Stephen, I ordered t5he cam I needed yesterday from woodmizer. Actualy pretty cheap, less than $15. Also ordered one from Cooks to do Lennox blades. That one was high. They had to custom make it. $80 for that one. Tried to regrind one of the ones that came with the sharpener and was getting close before I totally screwed it up. Must be quite an art to making them. LeeB
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.


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