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353 detroit vs 4248 perkins

Started by vtlogger1973, October 27, 2010, 06:40:34 AM

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vtlogger1973

I have owned a 78 TJ 230 with a 353 detroit for 15 years, and love it.  I am considering buying a second 230 with a MF Perkins 4 248; but I am totaly unfamiliar with this engine.   Has anyone out there run a Timberjack with a Perkins?  Any info on power, fuel consumption, longevity, availibility and cost of parts,  cold starting, etc.  would be greatly appreciated.  Also, can a Perkins easily be replaced with a Detroit?                                                                                                                                                   

Randy88

Can't offer much help but I own a  detroit in a different machine same size as you have and a friend who's  a diehard massy man has had a few of the others your asking about but he's passed away, but this is what he has always told me about them, run fine, start fair in cold weather, are high priced to fix and get parts for, were dependable and long life, now most of the massy dealers are gone in our area and I can't imagine parts are easy to come by around me anyhow, detroits are harder and harder to find anyone who knows how to work on them either, parts are easily available but knowledge isn't, the old timers are a dying breed who worked on them and if it isn't a cummins nobody wants to touch them period or so it seems.    Massy put out a  lot of them at the time in tractors if I recall and the only other comment he made was they started better than the john deeres we had in cold weather, but thats not saying much because anything under 50 degrees and my john deeres were pretty hard to start until the later model ones, cummins fired right up until it got to zero without a problem but anything with a small four banger deere and you'd either use either or plug it in.   I've got another die hard massy man I know I'll ask him the next time I talk to him about them, I know he ran a lot of the six cylinder massseys, I don't know about the four cylinder thought, I'll check it out for you though. 

grassfed

You should get similar mileage to 353. Power is around 80 but should be more usable at lower RPM s. Cold starting you will need a block heater like a 353. Rebuild kits run $500-600. Fuel injection stuff is Lucas ( I think) kind of pricey. water pumps and heads kind of pricey. A lot MF tractors had  4-248 and 4-236. i think that the 4-236 was a little more efficient. I run a 399 (6-354)to pull a 10' disc mower and I like it. It uses fuel but it runs well and never has broken down.
The 6-354 has the same bore and stroke as the 4-236 the 4-248 has a bigger bore. Around here old  TJs with Cummins and Perkins sell for more than TJs with Detroits.
Mike

Sawyerfortyish

I,ll take the detroit. Easy to work on and parts available through auto parts stores like Napa. Perkins are good engines too I have one on my mulch grinder but they are now owned by cat but cat doesn't handle the parts you must find a perkins dealer to get parts. They are quiter than detroits but theres nothing simpler to work on than a detroit. I have a 671 on my mill a 353 on my edger a 371 on my genset and a 353 in my 230tj. I have a 380tj with a cummings that has kinda like to. Haven't had any problems starting the perkins in winter. If the 671 detroit starts on the mill so does the perkins if the detroit dont start neither does the perkins. There about equal for starting in cold. The detroit is easy on fuel where the perkins has a drinking problem  >:(

treefarmer87

never heard of a tj with a perkins i agree with Sawyerfortyish it is very hard to beat a detriot.
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

vtlogger1973

Thanks to all for the info.  Still havent made up my mind about that 230.  I wouild really like an old 240 with a 453 but all of them that I have looked at are beat to death. Does anyone in New England have a decent 240 for sale?  My old 230 needs some major surgery and will be down for quite a while. Ineed a machine to keep going with.

Mark K

Commercial Truck and tractor of Glens falls has a real nice 240 with a 453. Went up 2 weeks ago and looked at it. Looks like a real decent machine but tires are getting down. Not far from the Vermont border. People were real nice there, I just couldn't swing it right now. Good luck
Husky 372's-385's,576, 2100
Treefarmer C7D
Franklin 405
Belsaw m-14 sawmill

grassfed

http://nh.craigslist.org/grd/2027077384.html

Looks like a good prospect also Eddie Nash has a bunch of them.
Mike

bushmechanic

For sure stick with the Detroit the Perkins in a Timberjack is crap.I have used a lot of Tj 217's with the 4.236 in them and everyone of them gave out in the crankshaft.We put 353's back into the machines when the Perkins took her last breath.

treefarmer87

stick with the detriot in the TJ. there is one on equipment trader in amhurst VA for $8000,completely redone, new paint. nice machine. im sure the man will take less than that though.
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

vtlogger1973

Bushmechanic
In regards to bellhousing, clutch, motor mounts, radiator, etc., was swapping from a perkins to a detroit asimple job or did it require some customizing.

Also I located a 240 with a 6 cyl deutz engine.   Does anyone have an opinion on this engine.  This engine is air cooled and we get some pretty hot weather in July and August.   

thank you

treefarmer87

that deutz it a good motor hard to beat, not as loud as the detriot :'(  i looked @ c5 with one in it but didnt have the money to buy it @ the time. the one i looked @ had a 3 cyl in it. i bet that TJ has alot of power with that 6 cyl in it.
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

bushmechanic

Let's see if I can remember been a while since I did the last one myself but only last year a friend of mine put one in his 217D.You will have to use the 353 mounts but they will bolt right to the machine.Use the machines own radiator,bell housing,the clutch and pressure plate will swap to a Detroit flywheel and I think the starter also will fit.If you get a 353 out of another Timberjack is the easiest way to go,a 230 or 208  would be ideal.I took one out of a White back-hoe and it took a lot of shoe horning to work because Detroit's are made for a variety of equipment.You said you were looking at a 230? I never heard tell of a Perkins in a 230 and especially that model engine,someone possibly already swaped the engine in that machine.Deutz is a good engine we have used C5 and C6 forwarders with those in them,great for cold weather starting but awfully cold in the cab,nice and quiet running.

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