Bandwheel alignment

Neil_B · December 05, 2003, 05:54:12 PM

Once again all, I need technical advice :

.

I finally got a chance to check my band wheels for alignment and as figured, they were out of whack. So, I proceeded to shim and adjust and got the drive wheel straightened and in alignment with the idler wheel.
Problem came up when I put a blade on and it tracked back on the drive wheel immediately. Now, I still have to adjust the tracking on the idler wheel but I'm wondering if that is going to be enough to fix it. I'll see tomorrow.

Anyway, what I'm really wondering is how well aligned are these wheels supposed to be? I had first lined them without tension but as soon as I tensioned the blade, the drive wheel pulled in 3/16" on the inside so I proceeded to align it going by the tensioned setting. Now it is aligned when the blade is tensioned so I'm assuming it is running straight now.

Here is how I did it.
I set up a straight edge along the front of the guards. Measured from straight edge to outside of the drive wheel, 2 1/4", measured the inside edge of wheel and it was considerably less so shimmed to bring it out to 2 1/4". Next went around to idle side and measured the inside at 2 1/4". So now I know the wheels are lined up, but the outside of the idler is 1 7/8". Of course this is the tracking side and I do have to bring it in a bit, (to move the blade forward, bring outside edge in towards frame, according to the manufacturers notes).
I also checked the top and bottom of the drive wheel and brought it into vertical alignment.

Am I on the right track with this or am I just being too picky :P. I still can't get this thing to cut straight and have finally ruled out most things such as the blades and guides so this is kind of last ditch attempt to get any kind of production on this thing.

Please set me straight ;D

Tom · December 05, 2003, 08:27:19 PM

My opinion.

Your are on the right track. If you get them lined up properly it will be as if you picked up horsepower and your blade life will increase. I don't know if you will notice a "straight cutting" difference since a blade can be made to run straight even on crooked wheels. They do it with effort though.

A trick I was shown by Brian Martin at Baker will help to determine if the wheels are very close.

Put the blade on and tighten it up. Turn the wheels forward in the direction of cutting and the blade should track properly on the crown. Turn the wheels backwards next and the blade should still track without moving in or out much on the wheels.

That shows that the wheels are co-planer.

Neil_B · December 06, 2003, 12:14:16 AM

Thanks for the opinion Tom, glad you didn't say "If it aint broke **"

;D.

Anyway, what I was hoping by doing this was by straightening things out I would increase support to the body of the blade to keep it from twisting etc ???.
Not really sure how much it would affect it though but worth a try, even a gain in HP is always good.

:-/ :-/ :-/

Was going to add more to this but can't think. It's 3 am and I'm up because of a darn cough so still a bit sleepy. I'll come back to it when I try tracking blade today.

Neil

edsaws · December 06, 2003, 11:05:06 AM

I think you should make sure your wheels are perpendicular ??? to the log bed first. Then get both wheels in coplaner with each other.Then when you use the tracking I believe the centerline of the tracking wheel will remain in coplaner with the non tracking wheel. Just my .02. I'm still a rookie at this and had my own trackin' concerns not to long ago.

Neil_B · December 06, 2003, 01:58:28 PM

Well, finally got it back together and lined up. What a difference just in how the blade sits on the wheels now. It's straight 8).

edsaws, my wheels were out about a 32nd of and inch ;) with the bed but I made that up with the downpressure of the guides.

With any luck this thing will saw lumber straight and true.
Hopefully can beat my record of 500 bdft a day :

.

Will see come Monday.

Fla._Deadheader · December 06, 2003, 03:47:53 PM

Good to see that you MAY have yer problem solved. Been down that road, myself.
Just as an update, I sawed one of the log stops yesterday. :

:

Old Timers, Don'tcha know :

:

;D
  ENNYHOO, that DanG Monkey Blade kept sawin straight and true. I SWEAR that blade would have cut the rest of the 23" dia. log, if I had went ahead and done it.
  This is NOT a test to see if anyone thinks I'm nuts, I already know that answer.
  The Monkey Blades are proving to me that they are above and beyond. I do NOT apply a lot of tension, either. I snug 'em up and then give the bolt tensioner a good couple of lunges with a 3/8" ratchet. THEN, I take the saw up to speed and raise the head a little and look UNDER the sawhead and see where the blade rides and if there is ANY curve in it. If so, I adjust till it's straight, and saw till the blade is dull.
  We sawed over 1000 bd/ft with one and it was STILL cutting well, although the dust was getting fuzzy, so we changed.

Neil_B · December 06, 2003, 04:19:10 PM

deadheader,
hopefully soon I'll start making some money with this thing, instead of spending it and wasting time. Then I'll hook up with you somehow and see if you can get me some of them blades.

I hope I have solved the problem as this is getting a bit tedious. :(

Fla._Deadheader · December 06, 2003, 04:25:39 PM

We lined up our wheels with a string, same as them Nascar boys 8) ;D :D :D :D :D Then we squared 'em to the bed with a carpenters square. :

;D :D I'll put it up against a WM or any other of the same HP. ;D ;) :D :D

solidwoods · December 07, 2003, 05:21:54 AM

I didn't hear mention of removing the blade guides away from the blade when tracking. Got to track without blade guide contact.
String across wheels shows same plane also.
Putting tension on the blade to track is wrong. The tracking is set with operating tension on the blade (and watch,,one way movement on tracking will tighten,,the other will loosen the blade, a little, so make sure track is done with operating tension)
Run a few cuts then move blade guides back and roll the wheels to check that tracking stayed put.

If the blade is off tracking a little and the guides are pushing the blade in place, all kinds of un-uniform cutting problems can occur.

JIM

Fla._Deadheader · December 07, 2003, 05:29:50 AM

Jim's advice is "right on". 8) Helped us get the tracking corrected. ;D My input was just my way of checkin things before striking the log. ;D :D :D

Neil_B · December 07, 2003, 05:39:04 AM

I resorted to the string line as well. I realized that the straight edge wasn't going to work the way I set it up because the frame was bowed in the middle. Had to cut a bit of steel to get the string straight but it worked well.

Had the blade guides removed for the entire setup then put them back on when everything was checked and rechecked. Everything was done with the operating tension except for the actual adjustments. Did lots of walking around the machine to tension, check, detension, adjust etc, etc.

Neil_B · December 10, 2003, 02:34:42 PM

Well, all that trouble didn't help the cut much >:( but I do feel better knowing everything is lined up.

So on to the next step. Blade speed.

I was bopping around Suffolk's site and noticed that they recommend a blade speed of 6300 sfpm for their 2" blades. So thought I would give them a call but was told none of there techies could help me. Shouldn't have told them I'm from Canada :

Can't buy their blades so why help!!

Anyway, I called Lenox's tech line and asked what speed they recommended for their 2". 7000 and up is what the techie told me. Very helpful lad, nice guy too.

I'm currently running at 5800 with my pulleys. So I ordered another pulley to speed things up to 6700. Will see how that goes. The Lenox tech expressed his concern over increased blade fatigue but I told him that if it will help this thing saw, then I will be better off anyway. I've got the 24" band wheels so that will hopefully help blade life.

If this seems to help a lot then will consider a larger centrifigal clutch which will really speed things up. 8)

Fla._Deadheader · December 10, 2003, 03:01:03 PM

New, I believe ya got something else happenin. Raising the blade speed a bunch, will only help ya dull yer blades quicker.

Not long ago, "D" fredrick posted about SLOWING the blade speed a little, but, keeping the feed rate the same. Makes larger dust chips. Tried it, and it seemed to work. The dust flew outta the log. Course, the Monkey blades helped a LOT. Also, the other day I was cutting a 23" log through and through. Mind wandered a bit, and when I started the next cut, it really bogged the engine. Well, I just went ahead and INCREASED the feed rate :

:

, and the engine REALLY started lugging and losing RPM's. The DanG blade STILL cut straight, until I came to my senses and slowed the feed speed. :

:

This ain't recommended, but, that "Old Timers" sneaks up on ya..

There MUST be a way I can get one of them blades to ya????????????????

Are you using 2" blades now??? If so, WHY ??? ???

Neil_B · December 10, 2003, 05:01:43 PM

deadheader,

the 2" setup came with the mill plus I have 20 or more 2" blades so rather than refit the guides and what not for 1 1/2 or smaller plus buy more blades, I figured I would leave it the same. Besides there must be some advantage to these wider blades, just gotta find out what ???.

I read what D F had posted and tried that by slowing the rpms down on the machine. Figured it would help because I was also putting it closer to the engines torque curve. I basically slowed it down and then tried different feed speeds but nothing was working as well as the high blade speed so I guess my only option is to try it faster. With my blades pulling through the cut I'm hoping I can increase that centrifigal force thingy and get it pulling straight.

My luck has to turn around sooner or later :

woodmills1 · December 10, 2003, 05:04:56 PM

Get out your eye loop and make sure the teeth are sharp all the way across front and back of the tip.

Fla._Deadheader · December 10, 2003, 05:28:46 PM

You will hear Tom say this all the time. The Blade HAS to be sharp.

I believe that is a major part of the difference in the Monkey Blades. Them suckers is RAZOR sharp. Swedish steel might be why they are so sharp??? They also STAY sharp, as I posted about sawing over 1000 bd/ft with 1 new blade ;D

Buzz-sawyer · December 10, 2003, 05:52:30 PM

Hey Harold I know that swedish steel is tops in the past any who....sweedish mauser rifles are among the besty crafted and materials....

Fla._Deadheader · December 10, 2003, 05:58:01 PM

Take yer word for it, Buzz. Ain't never had nothing Swedish before :

:

;D ;D

Buzz-sawyer · December 10, 2003, 06:42:31 PM

oh sweeds are known for high quality steel in swords, bayonets , knives too...maybe strong monkeys too?

Fla._Deadheader · December 10, 2003, 06:54:51 PM

They got me convinced. I youster think Suffolk was great :

;D

solidwoods · December 11, 2003, 05:31:55 AM

How much down pressure on the guides. I would set the guide to just touch the guide, no down deflection.

FEDX say's they ship to Canada.
Suffolk would be loosing more than they know if they can't figure out how to ship to the same continent.

How are you sharpening/setting blades?
JIM

Neil_B · December 11, 2003, 05:56:36 AM

Jim,
I do have a bit of deflection in the guides, not quite 1/8". Maybe will try setting even with wheels.
Not sure why these companies won't deal up here but Suffolk isn't the only one. Tried to get in touch with Kenne Saw and 21 Saw shop but no-one has replied to my inquiries. A while back when I first phoned Suffolk, I was told it was a licensing thing ???.

I sharpen and set with a Dino auto sharpener and setter.

Fla._Deadheader · December 11, 2003, 06:41:27 AM

With our mail order business, we tried to ship to Canada. There was one dealer that got a shipping address in Michigan. He would drive there and cross back with his boxes.

   Seems that there are 2 reasons for the problem. One is cheap buyers that don't want to pay the duty on what they buy. The other is the duty and arrest of items so the canadian govt can see if the duty was actually paid. If an item is produced in Canada, and then returned for service, the govt. arrests the item and does the search. That CAN take a couple of weeks.

  We had that problem when we bought out Barringer's Magnetometer Division. :

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