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Author Topic: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT  (Read 5551 times)

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Offline treefarmer87

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LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« on: February 24, 2011, 01:55:05 PM »
my loader will run for about 5 min and cut off, when it starts dying down to cut off ether wont keep it running. if you wait 15 secs it will crank back up and do the same again ??? i had a friend from napa come out and look at it, he said it was the lift pump. i had a time trying to find a new onen napa couldnt get it :-\, i had to go to bullock bros and they ordered me one ($90  :o) is it that or could it be something else, we put 2 new fuel filters on yesterday, and a new oil filter and last week. ???
1990 Ford F-800
1974 Ford L 9000 Self Loader
1994 John Deere 648E
1985 Franklin 170 Forwarder
John Deere 440 B
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice 210
FEC 1000 slasher
FEC 1550 slasher
Danzco Delimber
Sthil 660
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255

Offline John Woodworth

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2011, 02:15:46 PM »
Are you meaning fuel pump, I've worked on a lot of Detroits and have never heard of or seen a lift pump on them.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

Offline furltech

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2011, 02:16:19 PM »
my 353 was doing this too after changing the fuel filters one time and it turned out i got a falty filter with a little pin hole in it and it was doing the same thing ,i would never have figured it out except it was running when i changed them so i figured it could only be the filters put new ones on fixed problem

Offline Bobus2003

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2011, 03:00:40 PM »
Would been cheaper to put a Electric Fuel pump on it from NAPA.. It does kinda have a "air leak" sound too the symptoms you mention.. Are the Filters on Tight? Seals wear in good shape on the filters? How much have you ran it since the Filters were changed..

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2011, 03:07:08 PM »
the seals on the filters are brand new and both fuel filters were put on yesterday
1990 Ford F-800
1974 Ford L 9000 Self Loader
1994 John Deere 648E
1985 Franklin 170 Forwarder
John Deere 440 B
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice 210
FEC 1000 slasher
FEC 1550 slasher
Danzco Delimber
Sthil 660
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255

Offline Bobus2003

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2011, 03:16:19 PM »
You didn't disturb any fuel lines did ya? Like maybe tore a rubber one so its sealed when the engines not running, but when running the vibration causes it to suck air and die?

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2011, 03:35:51 PM »
Take the filters off and put back on, try it is worked for me in the past.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline snowstorm

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2011, 06:12:26 PM »
i have never seen one of those pumps go bad..its a gear pump. it has to have fuel in it to pump it wont pull it if its dry. no good way to prime it but blow air in the fuel tank. check all the lines fittings...fill the filters they spin on ??or old style???still there is a plug fill there. primary filters before the pump secendary after. if you wanta test the pump buy a oil pressure gudage put it in the secendary fuel filter housing theres a plug there. idle 10...20 psi wide open 65psi

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2011, 06:14:26 PM »
ill try the filters, i dont think the lines are tore, but ill check that also, the filters are old style cartridge
1990 Ford F-800
1974 Ford L 9000 Self Loader
1994 John Deere 648E
1985 Franklin 170 Forwarder
John Deere 440 B
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice 210
FEC 1000 slasher
FEC 1550 slasher
Danzco Delimber
Sthil 660
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255

Offline Mark K

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2011, 06:37:03 PM »
Can you blow back into the tank to see if there's a restriction? Also check all the elbows where they go into the filter housings and into the head. Mine had a hard piece of plastic wedge in one a while back. Thought the old girl was giving up on me, couldn't get out of it's own way. I have replaced that pump before. Mine broke all the ears off when I first got it. I put an electric fuel pump on to get it out of the woods. Had no power though.
Husky 372's-385's,576, 2100
Treefarmer C7D
Franklin 405
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Offline davegran

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2011, 06:45:44 PM »
I changed the fuel filters on my 353 this fall and it did not run well after.  Spoke with an old mechanic friend who knows the 53 series.  He suggested blowing out the fuel lines, esp from the tank, b4 spending any more dough.  Did that and she's never run better.

Offline plasticweld

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2011, 06:53:16 PM »
I have had fuel pump trouble with my 453 in my TimberJack, the thing ran fine then pulling up hill it would start skipping, I slowed down let it idle for minute or two and it would go a few more feet just fine and then start  skipping. I turned the machine around and brought it back to the landing and took the fuel filter apart it was only half full of fuel. I ordered a new pump $170 and it fixed the problem. Does it start hard in the morning this would also be a sign of low fuel presure. Blowing the fuel line clean back to the tank sounds like a cheap fix after all if it does not make it to the pump it can not do the job. My Clark and Timberjack both have drains on the bottom of the tank it might be  good idea to blow the line free and then let the junk settle to the bottom of the tank and then drain.. Post up how you make out..Bob

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2011, 07:05:18 PM »
thanks ill will try all of these in the morning :)
1990 Ford F-800
1974 Ford L 9000 Self Loader
1994 John Deere 648E
1985 Franklin 170 Forwarder
John Deere 440 B
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice 210
FEC 1000 slasher
FEC 1550 slasher
Danzco Delimber
Sthil 660
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255

Offline snowstorm

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2011, 07:11:37 PM »
the pump can be either right or left rotation. dont forget there must be a restriction fitting in the head on the return side

Offline bushmechanic

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2011, 07:40:37 PM »
Snowstorm is right on the pumps having left or right rotation,also the older 353's had a slight coupler driving the fuel pump and in later years the beefed up the wall thickness of the coupler because of stripping out problems.Undo the fuel lines and take out the three 5/16 bolts that hold on the pump pull it off and check the coupler before you purchase a pump.It looks like a small piece of square tubing.If you think you have fuel blockages put a can of fuel on the roof and try her out.hope this helps.

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2011, 07:46:51 PM »
When you put the filters on, one of the rubber gasket's rolled a little out of place on you, they can really  be a bugger in cold weather, just my thoughts.
 
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline two tired

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2011, 07:55:25 PM »
 If none of the above works try checking any rubber hose be tween the lift pump and the tank, the hose maybe deterated inside and can close off when there is suction on the hose.                                       
when wondering about weather conditions call the dog in and see if he is wet

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2011, 07:55:33 PM »
mine rotates to the right, ill remember the restriction fitting also
1990 Ford F-800
1974 Ford L 9000 Self Loader
1994 John Deere 648E
1985 Franklin 170 Forwarder
John Deere 440 B
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice 210
FEC 1000 slasher
FEC 1550 slasher
Danzco Delimber
Sthil 660
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255

Offline sealark37

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2011, 09:17:23 AM »
We have had an epidemic of lift pump failures on farm and forest engines since the advent of low-sulfur diesel fuel.  A new pump and a lubricity-enhancing fuel additive solves the problem.  Regards, Clark

Offline shinnlinger

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Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Offline rick f

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2011, 04:10:23 PM »
When you put the filters on, one of the rubber gasket's rolled a little out of place on you, they can really  be a bugger in cold weather, just my thoughts.
 

That was what happened to mine a few weeks back. Same coditions as tree farmer has.
I'll take a little more time changing filter in the future so I can avoid that again.

good luck
664 clark skidder
1- 562 husky
1- 254xp husky
1 - 268xp husky
1250 JD farm tractor with skid winch
5040 kubota farm tractor

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2011, 06:09:10 PM »
it didnt come in today, have to wait till mon :(
1990 Ford F-800
1974 Ford L 9000 Self Loader
1994 John Deere 648E
1985 Franklin 170 Forwarder
John Deere 440 B
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice 210
FEC 1000 slasher
FEC 1550 slasher
Danzco Delimber
Sthil 660
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2011, 07:12:34 PM »
put the new pump on, ran for ten min like new the started running bad again :( i checked all the filters and gaskets. im going to drain the fuel tank tomm, and blow out all the fuel lines
1990 Ford F-800
1974 Ford L 9000 Self Loader
1994 John Deere 648E
1985 Franklin 170 Forwarder
John Deere 440 B
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice 210
FEC 1000 slasher
FEC 1550 slasher
Danzco Delimber
Sthil 660
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255

Offline snowstorm

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2011, 07:47:06 PM »
now sonny didnt i tell you not to buy that pump. buy a oil pressure gudage into the secondary fuel filter housing then when it dosent make 65psi you will know its time to change filters. that have steel fuel lines???? saw one once they used copper kept craking in the flare. plastic air line works good much cheaper than hydr hose

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2011, 07:56:41 PM »
i will check the flares for cracks
1990 Ford F-800
1974 Ford L 9000 Self Loader
1994 John Deere 648E
1985 Franklin 170 Forwarder
John Deere 440 B
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice 210
FEC 1000 slasher
FEC 1550 slasher
Danzco Delimber
Sthil 660
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255

Offline snowstorm

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2011, 08:22:20 PM »
you say it runs bad?? whats it do???

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2011, 08:28:29 PM »
it just doesnt have that detriot sound, like it should. when it first start it sounds like a new detriot motor, but then it looses the wide open "detriot" sound and it cuts off after about 5 min, ether wont even keep it goin when it starts to die ??? it is really confusing to me.
1990 Ford F-800
1974 Ford L 9000 Self Loader
1994 John Deere 648E
1985 Franklin 170 Forwarder
John Deere 440 B
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice 210
FEC 1000 slasher
FEC 1550 slasher
Danzco Delimber
Sthil 660
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255

Offline snowstorm

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2011, 08:59:01 PM »
go easy with the happy gas. emergancy stop on the blower closed???? how cold of weather will it usually start without happy gas??????

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2011, 09:14:14 PM »
the owner before me spoiled it with ether and it has to have it to start :( the emergency stop on the blower is ok.
1990 Ford F-800
1974 Ford L 9000 Self Loader
1994 John Deere 648E
1985 Franklin 170 Forwarder
John Deere 440 B
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice 210
FEC 1000 slasher
FEC 1550 slasher
Danzco Delimber
Sthil 660
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2011, 09:24:35 PM »
treefarmer87, take the fuel line off the primary filer[ the line that comes from the fuel tank]

Get a fitting that you can slip a hose on and put it in there
Get about 3' of rubber hose, slip it on the fitting, put the other end in a 1 or 2 gal. jug

Start it up, if it runs good then you'll know something is wrong from there to the tank
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2011, 11:09:15 PM »
thanks lumberjack48 ill give that a try 2morrow :)
1990 Ford F-800
1974 Ford L 9000 Self Loader
1994 John Deere 648E
1985 Franklin 170 Forwarder
John Deere 440 B
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice 210
FEC 1000 slasher
FEC 1550 slasher
Danzco Delimber
Sthil 660
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255

Offline plasticweld

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2011, 07:33:15 PM »
I just went through a bunch of grief this past weekend thinking I had lift problems with my Clark which has a 3-53 in it. It was fluttering at high speeds. Sounded just like it was starving for fuel. I thought about some of the things posted here. First I tried to see if filters needed changing, put new filters on anyway. I thought it was the primary fuel pump and took that off, the square coupler was rounded and I replaced that and it worked good for a day. Next day at noon it is starting to flutter again. I looked at the hose that connects from the tank to the pump and there is a o ring that is sucked in kind of funny and I figure it must be sucking air. I replaced the fitting. Works well on Sunday and I thought I was all set. Monday I used it until lunch again and it started to flutter, I checked all of my connections and could not figure out why this thing was starving for fuel. I opened the fuel cap and the machine ran fine again. Get back on go to make a hitch and it starts to flutter again. I bring back to the landing empty and take the line off at the pump and try to blow back figuring that there was some obstruction in the line or tank. The fuel filter does not have a full amount of fuel in it. I can not blow back into the tank. I disconnected the line at the bottom of the tank and the fuel runs right out. I start looking at the line and it has a kink in it under the floor boards.

As best I can figure, when the line was cold it did not bend enough to restrict the fuel as it warmed up during the day the line would soften enough to collapse causing it to starve for fuel.

The extra suction was enough to ruin the coupler on the pump, suck the o-ring on the connection in and cause a host of other problems that all seemed to go away after the machine sat.


I hope some of my struggles might save someone else some grief.   I thought each time that I had it licked
Bob

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2011, 08:16:44 PM »
the flares were clogged full of gunk and trash! im glad i found the problem, i would have never figured it out if it wasnt for you guys though. thank you so much for all of your tips and thoughts :) it runs like a new motor now.
1990 Ford F-800
1974 Ford L 9000 Self Loader
1994 John Deere 648E
1985 Franklin 170 Forwarder
John Deere 440 B
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice 210
FEC 1000 slasher
FEC 1550 slasher
Danzco Delimber
Sthil 660
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255

Offline snowstorm

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2011, 06:21:24 AM »
you found the problem????? you did well just needed a little push

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2011, 10:20:22 AM »
Good deal, i can rest now  8)
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2011, 08:25:35 PM »
thanks for all of your help
1990 Ford F-800
1974 Ford L 9000 Self Loader
1994 John Deere 648E
1985 Franklin 170 Forwarder
John Deere 440 B
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice 210
FEC 1000 slasher
FEC 1550 slasher
Danzco Delimber
Sthil 660
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255

Offline cuznguido

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Re: LIFT PUMP ON DETRIOT
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2011, 10:32:16 PM »
I worked on those things for many years and there are several things that can cause your problem.  With that being said check your fuel tank vent.  Don't laugh just check it.  Take fuel cap off and start it up and see if runs good, if it does replace the cap and see what happens.  If necessary clean the vent.  I have seen this happen in the wake of some very good mechanics.  Just one of those things people never think of.


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