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Author Topic: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw  (Read 13947 times)

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Offline Jacar

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Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« on: December 20, 2003, 10:51:44 AM »
A friend of  my Dad's just gave us an old Belsaw 12 1/2" planer with rip saw attachments. 8)  ;D It is in fairly good shape.  Needs cleaning up, belts replaced, and one gear sprocket replaced.

It has 10" circular blades w/ 5/8" arbor.  You can attach two blades before the lumber would go in the planer.  I don't know much about how these machines were used.  It has a 5 hp 220 volt motor.

Anybody know anything?  I will try to post some pictures later.

Blessings and Merry Christmas to all!

Jack
Jack Watkins

Offline dewwood

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2003, 04:23:22 PM »
It is probably a combination molder, planer and gang ripsaw.  The rip saw is for cutting blank stock for moldings.  I am not sure how the Belsaw works, you  either put the molding cutters in the planer head or there is a separate head for molding cutters.  It sounds like it has plenty of power, should make a good addition to your shop.

Check with the previous owner about molding cutters.

Good luck!
Dewey
Selling hardwood lumber, doing some sawing and drying, growing the next generation of trees and enjoying the kids and grandkids.

Offline karl

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2003, 05:13:26 PM »
Usta have a belsaw- w/out saw attachment though, it was a tough machine. The knives for moulding went in the planer head- the machine is very similar to Woodmaster, I think they were a spinoff from Belsaw. Probably they can tell you if the knives are the same. Chains, sprockets should be available through your local farm equipment dealer. I have some early '80's sales literature on the "910"
PM me if you want more info.
"I ask for wisdom and strength, Not to be superior to my brothers, but to be able to fight my greatest enemy, myself"  - from Ojibwa Prayer.

Offline Jacar

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2003, 08:37:46 PM »
Dewey and Karl,

Thanks for the info.  I found the Belsaw web page and they have parts for the 9103, plus moulding knives.  I have never used a moulder, so it sounds like it might be fun to work with, since I am remodeling my garage into a bedroom.  

Interesting how my Dad came across this machine.  He was talking to and old friend and told him about our sawmill.  His firend said he had this planer-edger machine that someone had given him and never had used it.  So he said, "Do you want it?"  ;D  It pays to own a sawmill 8)  I don't think he realized it was a moulder.  

We will saw some logs for him when he needs some lumber down the road.

Karl, does the sales literature tell you much how to operate the machine?  I would think I could get a manual from Belsaw.

Jack
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Offline woodbeard

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2003, 04:53:53 AM »
I have one without the saw attachment, Mine was sold by Craftsman, actually. Back in the '50's, maybe? I think many parts are still available through Powermatic who bought the design some time back. I used one of the P'matic units in a cabinet shop for a while. They are not made as well as the old Belsaws. We even ran some molding on it a couple times.
Just used one knife and two counterweights. Three knives would have been alot better, but I guess the boss didn't want to spring for them or the extra setup time. I did let him know how I felt after the one knife pulled out of the head and flew across the room. :o

Offline woodmills1

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2003, 06:20:02 AM »
I have a Belsaw planer moulder, but not the rip attachment.  Mine has a 5 horse 220 Baldor motor.  It isn't real fast but has done lots of planing and moulding for me.  Nearly all of the parts are avaliable even for the older machines I think only one gear set is not avaliable for mine.  I have replaced the feed rollers on mine.  Watch the small drive belt that sends power to the feed chain drive, I have replaced that one twice.  Three knives are used for planing and they set up like many jointers with set screws and gibs.  I found and older dial indicator mounted on a little cast base with feet and it makes it easy to set all three level.

The web site and catalog offers a plethora of moulding knive profiles and as far as I can tell they are all one knive with two counter weights.  Most of the knives I have purchased and used will cut the profile in one pass, although it sometimes sounds like it is going to self destruct.  Often it will shatter the wood at a loose knot.  I made a guide board and found with just a little fiddling it will produce a very respectable product.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Offline Oregon_Sawyer

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2003, 10:11:32 AM »
I have a RBI planer, moulder, ripsaw.  http://rbiwoodtools.com/

They used to make Belsaw planers.  Look at the company information.

I have not used mine very much.  It's makes a great medium size planer.  As a moulder it has been a dissappointment to me.  But, maybe I expected too much.  I have the ripsaw setup but I have not used it yet.  As I don't have a edger yet I am going to see if I can use this as a poor man's edger.

My machine is the 20in wide machine.  I will probably have my moulding setups and knives (several never used) for sale as I have bought a commercial moulder.

Loren
Sawing with a WM since 98. LT 70 42hp Kubota walk behind. 518 Skidder. Ramey Log Loader. Serious part-timer. Western Red Cedar and Doug Fir.  Teamster Truck Driver 4 days a week.

Offline ScottAR

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2003, 12:56:10 PM »
Oregon Sawyer,

Which molder did ya get?  
Scott
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Offline Jacar

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2003, 08:22:38 PM »
Oregon Sawyer,

I was given an old(not sure how old) a Belsaw Model 9103 with ripsaw attachment.  It came with planer blades but no moulding blades.  

It will be after the first of the year before we get a chance to clean it up and get it working.  

Woodmills1,  I would never imagine just one blade and counterweights.  Are you saying that is what you have used?

Jacar
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Offline woodmills1

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2003, 07:51:05 AM »
Yes, I have around 8 or so moulding profiles and they all came with one cutter with an aluminum gib and two matched weights with steel gibs so that the weight is matched.  They work very well but sound scary!  I think on these machines it would be nearly impossible to get a sharp defined edge on moulding with more than one cutter.  I have tried to use multiple passes like when I do regular planing but find that any side to side movement or even a slight mismatch will not produce a crisp profile.  Therefore I almost alyways use one pass,  the secret is to size the material so that it is planed, ripped, and jointed to less than a sixteenth over finish before molding.  With all the moulding I have done only one knife was a problem and that profile was ordered by the customer and not by me.  It was a kind of colonial casing that had a large flat surface which was used to accept hinges for shutters.  It was also  wide I think 4 1/2 inch.  The knifes on these cut the complete profile including face and both edges.  This particular knife had to remove quite a bit of material and at one point the end of the cutter broke off.  I was still able to make the moulding but had to run the pieces through the jointer to finish the thin edge.  I didn't produce much hourly wage from that job, on top of the knife falure the customer was picky, rejecting many feet.  Seems his insistence on a large back relief didn't leave much material to hold the screws for the hinges.  The back cut also made it so knots just exploded during the face cut.  Anyone have any real small windows that need trim? :D :D :D
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Offline edsaws

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2003, 08:44:21 AM »
Jacar heres a link for the manual. http://files.owwm.com/PDF/Belsaw/912-912.pdf                I"ve got the same machine,I just put the kit to speed it uo on and it works great. I use it for planning and moulding and it does a good job on both.

Offline Larry

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2003, 01:23:48 PM »
I did all the molding for B-I-L's house on the old Belsaw and it was a lot higher quality than what could be bought at the yard.  Think the reason it was a lot better because the Belsaw is clunking along at 12 fpm while a production molder is running as fast as possible for high quantity.

Woodmills advice was great on how to run molding.  Be extremely careful if you try 2 passes on molding.  On the second pass the feed rollers don't have hardly any wood to grip especially with some profiles and a kickback is very likely.  I only make one pass.

If your going to do any planing check out the chipbreaker? on the machine as it was crude when new and probably wore out by now.  Belsaw used to sell blades with a back bevel that worked pretty well on figured wood to control chipout.

Don't get too anxious to replace worn feed rollers.  I like the worn rollers because they won't press the cup out of a cupped board so you end up with flat boards.  It does a better job on cupped boards than my Delta wedge.

Couple of ideas on dust collection.




This is my prototype.  Did good on oak and walnut but plugged up with cottonwood and basswood no matter how big the DC.  4" outlet.




This one came out of the machinery graveyard and does great.  Never has plugged up.  6" outlet.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Offline Jacar

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2003, 08:04:29 PM »
Hey Guys,

Thanks for all of the replies.  I am looking forward to gettting the machine running and see how it does.  Sounds like it will be a better planer than the one I have.

edsaws thanks for the manual link.  I got it downloaded and saved.  Took a while though.  I am still with modem dial up, no DSL.  

We are on way  to north Texas for Christmas.  Everyone be safe and have a wonderful Christmas!

God Bless,

Jacar
Jack Watkins

Offline Oregon_Sawyer

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2003, 12:00:16 AM »
Scott:

I bought an old Woods 137M moulder.  Patent date on it is 1931.

It is a 4x6 4 head moulder.  I just went thru the knives and I have over 40 sets and about 20 extra heads.

Loren
Sawing with a WM since 98. LT 70 42hp Kubota walk behind. 518 Skidder. Ramey Log Loader. Serious part-timer. Western Red Cedar and Doug Fir.  Teamster Truck Driver 4 days a week.

Offline shopteacher

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2003, 02:15:37 PM »
You might want to check with Belsaw on the rip attachment. A friend of mine has two belsaw planers and the second older one came with the setup for the ripsaw. I might be mistaken, but I think they told him not to use it.  Might better be safe than sorry.  I've seen some pieces come out the front of a planer and it rather scary. Had a piece just knicked my finger one time, thought it was broke for sure, but turned out just to be sore and bruised.
Proud owner of a LT40HDSE25, Corley Circle mill, JD 450C, JD 8875, MF 1240E
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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2004, 04:44:34 AM »
Anyone care to offer any advice on the price on the Belsaw planers??? I have a chance to get 2 of them, 12". There are parts and they both have rip blade and shaft. Might these make a light duty edger ??? ;D
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Offline cut2size

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Re: Belsaw Planer/Ripsaw
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2004, 11:35:08 AM »
New, I think that they were about $1500.  They sold their patents to powermatic about 6 years ago.  I have seen them sell for about $800 on ebay.  I have one that I bought about 15 years ago and it does a great job of planing.  I have probably run 15000 linear feet of oak through it and it still runs strong.  As far as an edger, someone on this forum or the WW was using one with limited success.  It does not have a large enough blade and the feed rollers are not serrated but vinyl coated and will not work well with softwoods.  I try to avoid planing pine, but if I have to I keep a bottle of isopropyl alcohol nearby to clean the feedrollers. :D :D
David
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