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Author Topic: Siding a Timber Frame out building.  (Read 27241 times)

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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« on: January 15, 2004, 06:39:11 AM »
You have several choices of siding for a timber framed out building. First of all you can have either vertical or horizontal.
Here are your vertical choices:




They are ship-lap, tongue and groove, or board and batten.
Here are your horizontal choices:



They are Vee groove ship-lap,  Vee-groove tongue and groove, and clapboarding.
And I suppose there are others that I haven’t thought of.

When I built this timber framed cabin/barn/shed for a customer, he chose vertical ship-lap siding. We ordered 10” boards, and after ship-lapping the surface area finished at about 8 ¾” exposed to the weather.
In order to attach vertical siding to a timber frame you need to install horizontal blocking between the posts for the siding to be nailed to, sometimes called “nailers”. These are placed 2’ on center for proper nailing support of the siding.
Here is a shot of the frame with the nailers in place:



You can see in this photo the frame for the second floor window, the beam with the block and tackle and shadow line blocking added to the outside of the frame.
A shadow line is a line created when the second floor gable end siding is attached one inch further out than the side wall siding. The shadow line is usually at the eave line.
Here is a shot of the stair way to the second floor and this also shows the blocking between the rear gable wall studs and the corner braces:



Here is the same view after the siding was installed.



With ship-lap siding one side is planed smooth and the other is rough and the rough side goes to the outside. Making a nice looking interior.
Here is a shot showing the shadow line at the eave at the front right corner of the building before the trim boards, rake boards and roofing was done:



Here is the same corner after the corner boards, rake boards and roofing has been installed:



Here is a shot of the cabin/barn/shed after the doors were made and installed:



Here is a shot of the wooden shutters for the second floor window:



Here is the front with the vee board pattern doors closed:



Here is the cabin/barn/shed after two years of weathering:



This is an example of one way of siding a timber frame used here in New England.
I hope you found it interesting and I’d like to hear about other different ways of siding buildings.
Jim Rogers
Jim Rogers Sawmill.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Offline logman

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2004, 06:56:13 AM »
Hi Jim,
How about some pictures of the frame if you have any.
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2004, 07:08:47 AM »
I have lots, what would you like to see?
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Offline logman

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2004, 08:29:54 AM »
Just a few pictures of the bare frame and maybe one of your
design drawings. Thanks
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2004, 08:32:02 AM »
Here is a series of shots raising the frame here in my sawmill yard:



This is the site for the frame.

After spreading out some sawdust to try to keep down the weeds and grass, I placed some blocks out for the foundation. And then brought over the sills and placed them on the blocks.




Next I assembled the sills, squared the frame and leveled it. Then I inserted the floor joists and put some planks on these joists to make a temporary floor.




Next we assembled the center bent and stood that up.



This frame is a Dutch design so there is a bent every four feet in length. The tie beams make the floor joists for the second floor.
Here is another bent:



Another:



The gable end bents have studs in them for the doorway framing and holding the siding blocking.
Bents need to be assembled with the pegs being driven from the layout face which is the outside on an end bent. To assemble it we rested the posts on the saw horses so that we could get down under the bent and pound the pegs in enough to assemble it.
Then we used the forklift to raise the bent.



The other end was done the same way:




Next comes the plates. Sometimes they need some help to get "driven" into place with a commander:



(Oh, yea that's me doing the striking with the commander).

Next with plates on:



Now the rafters:



Completed frame:



That's my brother, who helped me with the assembling of this frame.

Hope you enjoyed the show.

Jim Rogers


Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline logman

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2004, 02:29:46 PM »
Nice looking frame, is it white pine?  
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2004, 02:59:10 PM »
Parts of it, some are hemlock and spruce.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Offline IndyIan

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2004, 07:56:13 AM »
Thanks for the pictures.  That's a nice looking frame.  Are the posts 6x6"?

Ian

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2004, 05:29:43 AM »
Yes the posts are 6x6's.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Offline UNCLEBUCK

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2004, 05:23:21 PM »
Thats a beautiful building Jim, you make it look easy ! the siding you nailed on was it totally dry or have you ever made shiplap on green boards ever? thanks for the pics
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2004, 06:32:06 AM »
UncleBuck:
The siding was one year old air dried, before it was run threw the four sided machine.
And I have never made ship lap on green lumber.
You want the lumber to have dried as much as possible before putting it up, and then butt them together as hard as you can. Some of these had some sweep to them and we had to nail off the top and then use a pry bar to pull the bottom into line and nail it in place. Or they were saved and cut to shorter lengths or ripped for corner boards. We didn't have that much waste as I recall.
Jim
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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2004, 12:12:34 PM »
Hi Jim,
Have you ever done random width board and batten for siding?
Or even board on board siding?

I can't say I've ever seen a building with random width B&B but we are considering it for our garage.  We are using our own eastern white cedar and there are not going to be too many 10" wide boards.  7-10" range.  
Any idea if it looks OK?  
Thanks,
Ian


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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2004, 04:27:33 PM »
No I haven't done any random width siding, that I can remember.
You have to figure the width of the battens and see how close they will come on narrow boards.
Some people use 2" wide battens some use wider battens, it all depends on what you like to see.
I think I've seen board on board but can't remember where or when.
Recently I learned about a different type of board and batten. This type you use 1/2" thick battens some times 3" wide and place them behind the boards or between the board and the nailers. You slide them in as you nail off the siding and it only shows on the inside of the building. And the outside will be flat and smooth. If the siding shrinks or swells the batten behind it covers the opening to prevent any air/wind or light to come threw.
As a general rule most board siding is either 8", 10" or maybe 12" wide.
But you can try anything you'd like and see how it looks.
Good luck with your project.
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Offline woodmills1

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2004, 05:29:09 PM »
I have sold random width board and batten to horse barn customers.  Range from 4 to 16 inch wide, though  most of them don't like too much 4.  They use either 1.5 or 2 inch battens and put the siding up green.  They butt the siding close then wait maybe a month or two to put up the battens.  I cut the siding on the WM 4/4 marks so it is really 1 1/8 and the battens on one inch marks so it is 7/8 dries to less.  I try to make the battens out of hemlock so they don't break.
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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2004, 07:49:16 AM »
Thanks everyone for the information.  I have since found a couple pictures of random width B&B.  It's hard to notice at first glance with boards that vary between 6-10" with fairly narrow battens.
Ian

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2005, 09:35:32 AM »
Jim,

I will be picking up my siding today, 1x8 hemlock. I noticed in this thread you used the ship lap method, that is my plan also. How wide did you make the rabbit joints? My siding will be air dried about 6 months ( I hope ) before it goes on.

Jeff
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2005, 10:48:03 AM »
Are you going to make the siding yourself?
Or are you going to send it out to a mill work shop?

Jim Rogers
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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2005, 11:39:44 AM »
Jim,

I have not made that decision yet. I have the equipment to do it and the body's to help. Alot of work to unstack it, transport it to the mill and transport it back to my place and re-stack. The sawyer did not have the capabilities to mill it at his shop, would to had have been moved to another facility and I could of done that, however, I do not like the way the Amish here handle and take care of the lumber. They dead stack everything and I wanted to get these boards home right after they were cut to get them stacked and drying. If I would of sent them to another mill for ship lapping, I can see these boards dead stacked for weeks, we are into high 60's and 70's here and humid.
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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2005, 04:44:09 PM »
In the story above, we used ship lap siding. I didn't have enough dry wood on hand to do the entire job. So instead of mixing batches of different age or color lumber, we bought all this lumber from a local sawmill/lumber yard. This was their lumber that they had processed through their 4 sided planer machine.
Now that you know where it came from and why, I'll say that most if not all, mill work shops that are members of the lumberman's assoications, mill all siding and lumber profiles to standards set up in the assoications rule books. This is the standards that all these shops and companies size their lumber to in order that all lumber of these sizes and profiles match, from one company to another.

I don't have a sample of the ship lap we used here on hand.
But I do have the book.
Here is the detail drawing from the book:




It maybe hard to read here due to the size but here are the details.
Across the top line is the width of the face dimensions. They are 4, 5, 6, 6 3/4, 7 3/4, 8 3/4 (all in inches). Both rabbets dimensions are 1/2" wide and 3/8" deep. The total thickness of the piece is 3/4".

I believe we ordered 10" ship lap and got the 8 3/4" face exposure lumber.

The reason I asked if you were going to ship it out to a mill work shop was that they would probably make them this size for you.

If you are going to do it yourself then you'll have to plane one side first. Then run one edge through the table saw to true it up and you might have to run the other edge to size it, or to make it some standard width of your own.
Then you could run it through a bench top router table or do it with a dado on your table saw. If you do it with a dado on your saw, then you won't have problems with the planed side down run. But when you do the un-planed side down run, you could have some problems. You might want to size them, to insure that the are all the same width and with parallel edges and then run the non planed side by standing the board on edge and running over the dado saw.
Or if you have a steady hand, run a router down one edge.

I complete understand what you're saying about the stacking of the lumber.

And my local mill work shop said they won't run "green" lumber through their four sider. They wanted the lumber dry at least 3 months.
If you need a larger picture of the profile I can either email the drawing to you or create a larger on on my computer cad program.

HTH

Jim Rogers

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Offline Jim Haslip

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2005, 02:06:51 PM »
Jim ,

What about the nailing pattern for installing these boards and battens?

I once had a job tearing off ten inch B&B and reinstalling it because the wood wasn't quite dry when it had been installed and the shrinkage over about three years messed it up. They had nailed both sides hard to the stickframe horizontal strapping. So we tore it off, screwed one side to the strapping and then used the battens (screwed) to hold the opposite side down to the framing. We stained it first so the colour didn't change if the wood moved...

Or do you nail the large boards hard to the blocking in the centre  line of the large boards and let the edges float? (contained by the battens)

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2005, 02:09:57 PM »
Jim,

As always, thanks for your input. One question, we really did not want a planed surface on either the interior or exterior of the barn.  Thoughts / comments ? of course at your conveniance, I am in no hurry.

Jeff
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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2005, 02:51:20 PM »
Jim, you said:
""Or do you nail the large boards hard to the blocking in the centre  line of the large boards and let the edges float? (contained by the battens)""

Yes, I believe this is the correct way. Two fasteners, about 2" (no more) apart in the center for 1x12 boards. For 'neat' looking job, make the fasteners in a straight, level line across the wall, and make a jig to get the distance between the fasteners the same. The job will look much more professional, if that is desired.
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Siding a Timber Frame out building.
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2005, 05:56:51 PM »
With board and batten siding there are as many nailing patterns as there are old carpenters. Each seems to have "his" own way of doing it.
In upstate NY they use wide batten somewhere around 3" wide. Around here it use to be 2" but I like 3" myself.
I have a friend who has 2" on the sun side of his garage and he has had to replace them every few years as the batten dries up so much that it splits and falls off.
I believe he's gone to 3" now.
But when you decide what sizes of lumber to use and what size battens you should make up a sample wall and see which size looks best, to you.
The drawing at the top of this thread is from a book and it shows the wide board being center nailed only. And the nail in the batten goes between the wide board edges to allow it to float on both sides.
Some carpenters tell me the nail one side only. This nail on this side is covered with a batten and the other side is held in by the next batten. With this nailing pattern no nails show and the board is free to expand and contract from summer to winter.
Some nails can create rust stains and these show when the boards are center nailed. It really depends on you and your surface finish.
If you're going to paint over everything then center nailing might be ok. But if you're going to leave them natural and you don't use galvanized nails you might get some rust stains.

HTH.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension


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