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Author Topic: Timberjack 353 starter  (Read 4498 times)

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Offline madmari

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Timberjack 353 starter
« on: January 16, 2012, 05:50:35 PM »
Anyone have tricks to remove  the starter from a TJ208 with a 3-53? Got two bolts, can't even see the third!
  Also, rear wheel is leaking grease. Is there a seal?

Bad day- two skidders down at -10F and lots of wood to move......
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline smwwoody

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2012, 06:03:32 PM »
a few extensions a universal or 2 and a 12 point socket.  The third bolt is on the back side between the block and the starter.  long extention to reach the length of the starter
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Offline madmari

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 06:13:14 PM »
Looks like the oil filter has to come off first in order to get a ratchet anywhere near the rear of the starter. What a pain in the butt.
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Offline timbuck2

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 06:27:49 PM »
I had my wife take off the last bolt, she has alot smaller hands than I do. 

Offline madmari

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 06:33:19 PM »
Mine has no idea what a skidder is or what it does. She thinks a choker is a yard boss in Alaska and a slider is a choke-setter in Oregon on a steep muddy hill. You are a lucky man.
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline jocco

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 06:45:42 PM »
MADMARI: YES  take of oil filter, If you have the fuel filters above the oil filter pull one if not both. There is 3 bolts (starter mt30 series delco) The bottom one most used to leave out. you will need several exstentions and wobble or u joints. Have seen a hole cut in frame to get at one and other went up through bottom. ;D There is several places to get them rebuilt or replaced let me know if you need reference. They can get exspencive. :o You may find some on other detroits and change the " clock position to fit" most were externanl rotated. I just dealt with 2 this weekend. water/moister is a big issue on them as there o ring sealed just drill a small hole in the bottom of case ;D Do not hit the fields smiley_devil hope this helps.
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Offline madmari

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2012, 07:02:34 PM »
Thanks- last one I did was on a IH S7 with a 3-53 and it was a pleasure. This one, not so much.
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Offline FFLM

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2012, 07:15:06 PM »
You say axel is leaking? Could be the axel seal, between the axel and planitary.  I have two that leak really good in the summer and not so much in the winter ;) I was planning on replaceing them after doing the center pins a couple weeks back, but when I was done with the centers I decided I had enough wrenching for a while. 
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Offline smwwoody

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2012, 07:26:14 PM »
is it leaking around the pins in the planetary?  208s have light planetarys.
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Offline madmari

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2012, 07:31:24 PM »
Leaking behind the wheel, between the hub and axle housing. Leaking pretty good, too. 80-90 wt is a pain to transfer at these cold temps; wouldn't think it would leak at sub-zero. It certainly doesn't like to leave the pail!
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline timbuck2

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 07:32:31 PM »
Moisture is def a problem, watch out water doesn't run down the exhaust pipe  right onto the starter.   Last rebuilt 3 yrs ago for $45 in St J, still works great.

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2012, 07:35:00 PM »
I changed many starters on a 353, but not on a TJ.

The one bolt up behind the starter was a 12 point bolt, 9/16.

The wife changed the last one, it was about -20, when she hooked up the solenoid she tightened just a little more [ cracked it ] she knew better, back to town.

Theres a little dirt causing the seal to leak, take a table knife, right at the end bend it over about a inch long at a 90 degree angle, run this around a few times to clean the dirt out.

Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline madmari

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2012, 07:36:45 PM »
Last starter I did was $276., plus the dreaded down time and road time getting rebuild.
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline madmari

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2012, 07:38:54 PM »
I cracked the solenoid on this one cleaning the contacts. They break easy when cold, so tell your wife she is forgiven......
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline timbuck2

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2012, 07:57:27 PM »
Wife just said the bottom 12 pt bolt went on from up underneath the frame.

Offline OntarioAl

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2012, 10:43:54 PM »
Madmari
  When you get the starter out check the brushes you may just find that one or both have had the springs "cooked" by high current low voltage cold weather cranking. The springs loose their tension and the brush does not made contact replace the brushes and your good to go. Poor batteries cranking  cold motor are thr root cause of many starter problems.
  Check the axle vent (located on top of the axle housng) if it is plugged (frozen mud ice...) as the rear end warms up with operation the air pressure in the axle housing will rise  and push the oil out past the seal.
  I hope this helps been there done that on the learning curve with my TJ 230-D
Al
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Offline madmari

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2012, 04:50:53 AM »
Thanks OntarioAl- it does act like brushes as a rap with a mallett produces a strained crank.
 The vent is something I'll check- hope it's that easy!
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline Mark K

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2012, 08:01:31 AM »
Watch that you don't push on the bolt to hard while taking it out. There's a special nut that  is suppose to lock into the timing cover plate. Mine fell out when I went to pull the starter. Falls right into the geartrain. Found it before anything happened.
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Offline oldseabee

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2012, 09:22:21 AM »
most Clark machines moved the axle vent to a remote location with a hose to the axle to keep the water out and the mud and junk away from the vent.

Offline madmari

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2012, 05:28:03 PM »
The bottom bolt was a 15/16" hex- no way to get it out. Took the starter apart from the back side forward, which is how it must have gone in. Easy to do. Once the starter motor is off, the three bolts holding the starter to the flywheel case are easily accessable.
  The brushes looked good, so I think the problem is the solenoid. The contact inside the solenoid was green ::).
  It was -17 F yesterday,  Snowed like crazy all morning,loaded logs this afternoon in a pouring rain. Going to be high in the 20's tommorow. Wonder why we have mechanical problems due to moisture. New England is a crappy place to live.

 I may take off the ring chains, fill up the 230 and drive south.

I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline rick f

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2012, 05:33:26 PM »
Please send pictures along the way. :D
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Offline Ed_K

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2012, 06:08:11 PM »
I like the butter knife idea,going into the remember this book.
Ed K

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2012, 06:11:09 PM »
my c5 is the same way. it isnt the easiest part to take off. like woody said a long extension and a twelve pt socket   
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Offline lumberjack48

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2012, 06:36:31 PM »
I like the butter knife idea,going into the remember this book.

I had wheel seal leaking on my C5, i was asking my dad how big a job it was to put new seals in.

NO-NO he says we'll try a butter knife first, i shook my head what ever. He went dug in his tool box and comes up with his special made butter knife. He got down, ran the knife around a few times, that should fix it, he said they get a piece of dirt and when it turns cold the seal gets hard and it leaks. [ hes 86 now]
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline John Woodworth

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2012, 10:17:20 PM »
A combination of extensions will get you off, just loosen the lower enough to help you get the upper out and replace the same, on your wheel seal, be sure to get a speedy sleeve as well, it goes over the worn portion of the axle and gives you a new seal surface on the axle.
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Offline madmari

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2012, 06:30:46 AM »
The original 12 pt bolt had been replaced with a hex-head and could not be removed with a socket. The only way to remove it was to take the starter motor apart while on the skidder. This leaves the starter mounting plate accessable. This worked pretty well, and had to have been the way the starter was put on last time.
  As far as the seal goes, I am going to try Lumberjack 48's trick today and then check the vent. This makes sense as the seal leaked a little some time back and then stopped. All of a sudden it's leaking again; consequently both times it's been during wild temp swings with frozen mud on everything.

  There's alot of knowledge on this forum- what a help! Thank you.
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline madmari

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Re: Timberjack 353 starter
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2012, 08:10:05 PM »
Got the starter rebuilt for $65- new solenoid. Put the bolts back in the right way :). 5 degrees this morning, spun and started like summertime. No ether, turned like three rpm and varoom!!! All along I thought the batteries were weak but not so.
  I tried the butterknife trick and cleaned the axle vent on the rear wheel seal. See tommorow morning if that worked- thanks for sharing Lumberjack48 and all those that helped out.

Little victories!!!!
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.


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