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Author Topic: Woods porting  (Read 9669 times)

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Offline Timbercruiser

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Woods porting
« on: May 13, 2012, 01:33:54 PM »
Sorry im new to all this but I see alot of guys talking about ''Woods porting" or porting there saws. I just bought a new stihl 362 pro saw and wondered if I can do anthing to make it breath and have more power. Any info will be a big help thanks

Offline NCFarmboy

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2012, 08:57:46 AM »
A muffler mod is the easiest and cheapest hp increase you can do.  Most are severly restricted.  It is like putting a set of headers on the old hot rods.  On your saw it will run cooler and make more power.  Will need to retune carb after modding the muffler.  The warranty will be voided if muff. is modded.  Some buy an extra muff. to put back on saw in case of warranty claim.  However, with a MM it will run cooler so it shouldn't be an issue.
Shep
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Offline John Mc

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2012, 12:04:43 PM »
If you are not up to doing a muffler mod yourself, often just swapping in a non-catalytic muffler will help it breathe better and run noticeably cooler (assuming it came with a catalytic one). Just as with a muffler mod, you'll need to re-tune after the swap.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Timbercruiser

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2012, 08:13:42 PM »
What do I do to my stock muffler to make it run better. I see stihl puts some type of fancy lock nuts on to make it hard to open up

Offline John Mc

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2012, 10:39:53 PM »
There are others on here who know a LOT more about this than I do, but the basic idea is opening up the exhaust outlet in the muffler a bit (a drill or dremel tool can work wonders here). If the muffler has a lot of internal restrictions, you may want to remove or modify them as well. NOTE: some catalytic mufflers have some nasty metals inside that you do NOT want to inhale. Take appropriate precautions if you are working on one of them.

Try searching on   muffler mod   for more information.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline AdkStihl

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2012, 11:58:37 PM »
I know of a few guys on another forum who would love to give your 362 a massage :D If youre interested just send me PM and I'll head ya in the right direction.
Most saw builders/porters typically charge $250-300 depending on what type of performance youre looking for. Price usually includes shipping back to you.
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2012, 05:00:14 AM »
On our Stihl FS550's (57 cc brush saw) we take the finer mesh screen out. It plugs solid in the first day of use. Anyone that says otherwise has never run one a straight 8 hr day. ;) So we put in a courser screen, never touch it again, except daily air filter cleaning.  :)
Move'n on.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2012, 10:09:54 AM »
 :D Now how pray tell would 98 percent of us know about a brush saw Swamp ? You and half a dozen people on the planet are the only people that operate the things .

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2012, 10:19:52 AM »
Brush saws aside generally speaking a little work on the muffler and obviously retuning the carb will satisfy most saw users .

Now of course they make a big deal about "woods porting" and choose up sides on internet forums and all the hullabaloo over little of nothing .Then brag up the builder --until they get out ran by a stock saw at some saw GTG then the guy goes from hero to zero .

It's just much nonsense on forums ,nothing more .Believe what you want though ,it's still somewhat of a free country . ;)

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2012, 04:18:55 PM »
Al, by the sounds of it they've been reading too many posts over there from Tobiquers. If they say they cut 5 acres a week, you can divide that by 2 and come out about right. I didn't make that up as I have had 4 working for me at once, so I know.  :D 8)
Move'n on.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2012, 05:15:45 PM »
Not me ,you must have someone else in mind .Like I've said a million times I've never even seen a brush saw  let alone read up on one .

Fact you are my only source of information about one .I have no idea who this Tobiquers is or  where over there is .

Where is over there ? Is that the same as over yonder ?

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2012, 05:22:16 PM »
No, not you. You need to read more carefully. As far as over there, everyone is always talking about some other forum, so it's over there. ;D

A Tobiquer, an inhabitant of a small region of NB along the Tobique River. Well known for stretching the truth. ;)
Move'n on.

Offline AdkStihl

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2012, 10:03:39 PM »
On our Stihl FS550's (57 cc brush saw) we take the finer mesh screen out. It plugs solid in the first day of use. Anyone that says otherwise has never run one a straight 8 hr day. ;) So we put in a courser screen, never touch it again, except daily air filter cleaning.  :)

Plugs solid in a day?? That aint right. What are you running for mix?
Outboard/Marine mix @ 16:1  ???  Holy shart.
The FS550 is pretty much a glorified weedwacker with a skil saw blade.
Brush hogs are much more efficient ;D
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2012, 06:00:41 AM »
I'd like to put some of you bush hoggers on a tractor in the ground I thin. Won't be much left of tractor or bush hog in short order.  :D :D Brush saws are for thinning, hogs are for mowing. :D You've obviously never ran a 550. ;)
Move'n on.

Offline AdkStihl

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2012, 08:36:24 AM »
I'd like to put some of you bush hoggers on a tractor in the ground I thin. Won't be much left of tractor or bush hog in short order.  :D :D Brush saws are for thinning, hogs are for mowing. :D You've obviously never ran a 550. ;)

Youre right. Cant say I have. But then again, never felt the need for one either.
Whats up with your screens plugging in a 8 hour day? I just picked up another 10mm 044 very low hour saw with screen still intact and not a sign of any carbon constriction whatsoever.
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2012, 10:32:46 AM »
Brush saws are a different beast. Even the Husqvarna brush saws get a muffler modification before use or they do the same thing.  These saws are much higher sped as well. ;)

The need we have is that thousands of acres need thinned each year to keep up on the silviculture. It would be nice to sit it out in a cabbed machine, and they have experimented with this, but it's never worked and very poor results. They even used them to make trails, but instead of making trails in the thickets they go in the light places. Then the trails, no matter where they are, are full of spears to fall down and poke a lung or but cheek on. ::) No dice to that.
Move'n on.

Offline Tramp Bushler

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2012, 03:24:29 PM »
Back to the original ? . Porting a saw does help most of the time . But hands down the most important modification there is is a truely sharp , properly jointed well oiled chain in a good straight well maintained bar .

 Until youve cut with a properly chisel ground or filed chain , you really don't understand the difference .

As has been said here . A dual ported ,muffler on a saw with a properly adjusted carb does bump up the proformance like 5% . A perfectly chisel ground chain will bump the preformance 25-30% .
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Offline Tramp Bushler

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2012, 03:37:59 PM »
 A Silvey SwingArm grinder from Madsen's costs about the same as a new 362 Stihl . But if you take care of it , it will last 25 years or more and grind litterly miles of chain .
 No round grinder can compare to a chisel grinder so please lets not even go there .

In the long run a chisel grinder is no more than and can be less expensive than round fileing .
.
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Offline lumberjack48

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2012, 05:54:32 PM »
I knew loggers that logged all their life, they had no idea how to sharpen a chain properly. When they wanted to cut faster, they'd buy a bigger saw an cut the rakers lower.

Its just like a grinder, its only as good as its operator.

I've heard so many guys say, i wish that my saw cut as good as it did when it was new. Just by that statement i knew they don't know how to tune or file a saw.
I had a 444SE/SG Husqvarna, this was a factory ported 44, that i'd bought just to cut plantation Jack Pine with. It sounded like a model airplane, i cut & limbed 200 Jack an Norway trees a day with it. I would fall about a 6" Jack, while it was falling i'd cut 3, 4 pieces out of it in mid air. it was fun to run.

 

 
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2012, 07:15:58 PM »
  ,   I would fall about a 6" Jack, while it was falling i'd cut 3, 4 pieces out of it in mid air. it was fun to run.

 ]
Say what you cut up pecker poles like a Japanese chef with a ginsu knife .In mid air no less ? :)

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2012, 07:43:14 PM »
You got it Al, the throttle response was unbelievable. Have you ever had one, or worked on one ? 
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2012, 09:09:22 PM »
---or even seen or heard of one ,no .

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2012, 04:35:00 AM »
I do that by times with a brush saw to get it down. Remember, we aren't creating 1/4 acre sized holes when thinning and aspen is about the worst tree to hang up as is beech.
Move'n on.

Offline Full Chisel

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2012, 10:03:18 AM »
I first got my MS362 the March before last. Upon goin' in the woods, I thought I'd been had. I thought it was lockin' in the cuts and running out of power way too easy. Thru several tankfuls of fuel, she continued to wake up. It got to whistling like it should. I've heard many accounts of this. Break the saw in thoroughly, then ask yourself again if you want to drill out the muffler or have it ported. In a 60cc saw I don't see how you'll need more than what a stock 362 puts out.

I'm in with the sharp chain crowd with depth gauge clearance tuned to powerhead/bar length.
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Offline beenthere

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2012, 10:08:44 AM »
Full Chisel
Welcome to the forum.
I agree with your experience, and had similar questions running through my mind with my new MS361 ('04). After a few tanks, it gained speed in the cut as well as I gained the experience with the saw. Very happy with the product and performance since. Good on the sharp chain and tuned rakers.

Welcome aboard.
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Offline lumberjack48

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2012, 03:23:25 PM »
This is the reason i didn't like buying a new saw, i didn't have time to break it in. I used to always try an buy their demo saw, it was broke in an all the bugs were out of it, if it had any.

Hi, Full Chisel, I'm glad you've learned the trick to the chain saw, sharp and keep it sharp. Then you both get along fine.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline Full Chisel

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2012, 06:52:52 PM »
Thanks, guys.

Timbercruiser mentioned being new to all this. If he meant forums, he may have a background in saws.

But in case, it don't bother me any if a guy that knows he's serious goes and drops $700 US on a new Stihl. We don't want a guy to get carried away by hype on modding equipment. Those Stihl and Husky engineers are some of the best in any industry. They are plugging in what your saw needs. If there is some headroom available by honing up the castings and puttin' on some aftermarket stuff, I'd say run the saw five years then look at turning it into a racer.

With a 20" guide bar and .375 chain, that 362 will go thru anything and good on gas. For a 25" bar, that's askin' too much of a 59.5 cc saw and it's oiling capability. Take that modification money and get a roll of chain. Also, in any chainsaw, run the best gas you can find.
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2012, 08:34:42 PM »
Most people are tickled to death with just the performance of a broken in saw .Others with just some work on the muffler .

A few of us are gear heads and just like to tinker and putz around and thus hot rod saws .That doesn't mean everyone has to or pay somebody 250 to 400 bucks to make you a hot rod you don't need .

I mean souped up saws are a hoot to run but do you really need it ,the big question ????

Offline Clam77

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2012, 09:40:53 PM »
My 362 would handle a 25" bar easy enough with plenty of oil to keep it from burning up... if I had one to put on it.  It handles a 20" with ease now that it's had over a dozen tanks of fuel ran through it.

A 60cc saw (without all the EPA regs) SHOULD be able to handle a 28" bar with moderate use - and mine does quite well - but it lacks on oil with it and I'd prefer not to burn the bar up.  Stihl RECOMMENDS a 20" bar, most likely because that's the biggest bar they make with the "anti-kickback" feature, but I'm assuming they also did it to keep people that know absolutely nothing about chainsaws from burning them up as they also claim a 50cc saw with a full HP less will handle a 20" bar.

Would it be nice if it had a little more power for that 28" bar.....  of course.   Do I need a hotrod saw... not really.   Can I get a bigger saw if I need to cut something bigger... there's always someone that has one.
Andy

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Offline beenthere

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2012, 09:49:12 PM »
...................Stihl RECOMMENDS a 20" bar, most likely because that's the biggest bar they make with the "anti-kickback" feature, .........

Clam
What is different about a bar that has the "anti-kickback" feature?? Just curious.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Clam77

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2012, 10:53:05 PM »
...................Stihl RECOMMENDS a 20" bar, most likely because that's the biggest bar they make with the "anti-kickback" feature, .........

Clam
What is different about a bar that has the "anti-kickback" feature?? Just curious.

I'm not completely sure myself beenthere....   :-\

Stihl uses the green/yellow coloring scheme on their bars as well as their chain.. I can only assume there's something in the nose that helps it out somehow- maybe a dampened nose sprocket??   :-\

Once you get above 20" though they sell the "yellow" painted bars - not sure if they make a "yellow" 20" or not.  I'll have to check around here and see.
Andy

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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2012, 10:58:35 PM »
There's so called anti kick back chain but I'm not aware of anti kick back bars .Stihl bars as a general rule are painted white although I have a gray one on one of my 200t's .

Offline barbender

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2012, 01:38:19 AM »
I think the radius of the sprocket tip is smaller on the "low kick back" bars.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Full Chisel

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2012, 08:42:55 AM »
Green and yellow on the Stihl chain: Green means (go) and yellow means, GO!!!!! Have you ever seen the John Carpenter movie, "Starman'" where the alien guy is learnin' to drive from the Earth woman? OK, dangerous territory there for my third post.

The green chain has that extra hump along with the raker, maybe the balance helps the bar keep from kicking back. It makes sense to adapt tools to fit men, except when it makes the tools less efficient. At that point, it makes more sense to train men how to safely operate sharp tools. Technology is good when it's in the right hands.

Just like these saws. Mods aside the MS362 blows away the previous platform. As does the 261 over the 026. They are tighter, quieter, smoke less and use less gas. They do weigh more. Same with the 441. The old 044 Mag is a man-eater but if guys think the MS441 won't outrun it far enough to offset the increased weight, I'd like a closer look 'cause that didn't happen here.

On the bars, I've noticed the ones with marked yellow have replaceable sprocket nose and green designated ones don't have replaceable nose.

AT 50.2cc, MS261 will handle a 20" .325 guide bar all day. A 16" bar with 26 Rapid Super comfort and .030 rakers turns her into oak scissors.
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2012, 08:48:02 AM »
Oh this old "porting " thing gets so blowed out of proportion it becomes almost a laughing matter .

They choose up sides like an intermural basketball game and cheer on their great so called "builder "and make a big deal over a half a second cut time of three hits on an 8 by 8 .Big deal .

It ain't the rocket science they say it is .Not one person on the face of this earth was born with the ability to crank more power out an engine no matter if it's a 3,000 HP double A fuel dragster or SwampDonkeys brush saw .

They all had to learn at some time or another .There's just tons of info on the internet .Get a cheap saw with a removable cylinder and have at it .You'll never learn a blessed thing unless you do it . ;)

Offline Full Chisel

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2012, 09:02:02 AM »
It ain't the rocket science they say it is .Not one person on the face of this earth was born with the ability to crank more power out an engine no matter if it's a 3,000 HP double A fuel dragster or SwampDonkeys brush saw .

Are you saying that "Squish'" isn't relevant in thermodynamics?
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2012, 10:52:44 AM »
What's that got to do wth the price of tea in China ? We're not talking about an alkie /nitro race saw on a tuned pipe are we ? ;)

Offline Full Chisel

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2012, 11:14:37 AM »
We're not talking about an alkie /nitro race saw on a tuned pipe are we ?

No.
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2012, 05:30:52 PM »
Well okay then it's terminoligy then ."squish " is painting with a broad brush so to speak .It could be the piston head deck  clearance at top dead center or it could be the shape of the combustion chamber .

If it was used as reference and alluding to the fact of raising the compression ratio  then yes .That's pretty much standard practice .

However conversely if it's changing the shape or size of the combustion chamber perhaps with a removable head then it's race engine stuff .

"Squish "is often used like terms of "porting a muffler " now just how in the world do you port a muffler ?Rework one perhaps but port has nothing to do with it . ;)

Offline JohnG28

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2012, 07:26:38 PM »
...................Stihl RECOMMENDS a 20" bar, most likely because that's the biggest bar they make with the "anti-kickback" feature, .........

Clam
What is different about a bar that has the "anti-kickback" feature?? Just curious.

I'm not completely sure myself beenthere....   :-\

Stihl uses the green/yellow coloring scheme on their bars as well as their chain.. I can only assume there's something in the nose that helps it out somehow- maybe a dampened nose sprocket??   :-\

Once you get above 20" though they sell the "yellow" painted bars - not sure if they make a "yellow" 20" or not.  I'll have to check around here and see.

The difference between Stihl bars is that the green labeled ones are laminated, while the yellow labeled ones are solid steel with the replaceable tip.  Not sure why they label them this way.  The yellow label bars are available down to 16" or 18" though.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

Offline John Mc

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2012, 07:30:44 PM »
Other things being equal, laminated vs solid bars or replaceable vs non-replaceable tips doesn't affect kickback.  Now maybe they've shaped things differently or something?

Generally, solid bars and replaceable tips are considered more "pro" features, however.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2012, 08:41:18 PM »
Well if it means any thing you've got narrow tipped bars and wide tip bars .I can't remember numbers and such but some of my 24" Stihl bars have a much larger radius on the tip than others .

Stands to reason a wide tip bar would be more prone to kick back .Now bear in mind they're all going to kick if you catch a tip .Now maybe not with that chain with a big long safety bar gizmo but it doesn't cut worth a hoot either .

Offline John Mc

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2012, 11:07:55 AM »
I agree the shape can make a difference. But there is nothing that says your can't make either a laminated bar or a solid bar in those various shapes.  It's not the mere fact that it's solid that somehow make sit more prone to kickback.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Woods porting
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2012, 09:45:01 PM »
To cut to the chase in all this it should be assumed that all bars and chain for that matter have to possibilty of kick back potentential .Some might be by design more anti kick back but never the less they can all cut you if they get away from you .


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