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Author Topic: Electric winch cable broken...  (Read 4494 times)

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Offline grweldon

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Electric winch cable broken...
« on: June 27, 2012, 01:43:32 PM »
Has anybody broken an electric winch cable on a sawmill?  Came apart at the swedge that secured the hook.  Had a struggle loading a large log.  Stalled the winch many times.  Had to use a lever and fulcrum to assist the winch before finally getting it on the bed.  Took over an hour just for this tree.  When I switched the cable over to the log turner and put tension on it, it came apart...



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Offline Woodsrover

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2012, 04:14:45 PM »
Sounds like you're tough on that little winch.  Can you double it up with a snatch block on those big ones?
If you deform those swages at all they get pretty week and most winches come with pretty crummy swages if not the whole cable.
McMaster Carr sells field-serviceable cable clamps that are pretty strong.  If you want to save that cable I'd go that route.


Offline kgbond

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2012, 04:50:51 PM »
GRW, I would be unable to handle the weight of that log with 1 inch cable.Any way to get hold of a loader to make things a easy. ??  What does that log weigh?  Got to over a ton

Kimball

Offline medic

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2012, 05:14:41 PM »
GR
   Couple of things;  I've found on my 1400 that if I'm loading a big'un, I'll throttle it up about halfway.  That seems to keep the winch from stalling out.
    Also, from looking at your pic it looks like that big knot on the side of the log facing the camera probably came into contact with the edge of the mill when it was trying to pull the log over the little 'hump' made by the bunks at the top of the ramp.  If you can avoid that kind of situation it may help but sometimes on those big ones there's nothing we can do about it.  I've tried cutting a piece of 6'' diameter pvc pipe that was 8 feet long in half so it will fit over the rails on the mill then notched out for the bunks to make the transition from the ramp to the bunks a little smoother.  It help some but isn't the solution for all situations.   
    Like someone else mentioned, that's a big log.  If you stalled out the winch and had a tough time getting it up on the bunks you may have torqued or damaged the the connector on the cable.  When I've had a tough one like that I try to remind myself to check the connectors, snatch blocks, etc for damage before I move to the next phase of the operation (I said I try, sometimes I get in a hurry and don't always remember). 
Good luck
scott
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Offline WDH

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2012, 09:59:08 PM »
Wow, that is an ugly pecan log!  Remember, "Pecan is the Devil"  :).
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Offline grweldon

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2012, 10:03:53 AM »
Medic,

Thanks for the tips.  That is exactly what happened, but it wasn't a knot that got stuck on the edge of the mill, it was just the log hitting the bunk rails.  I was in a situation... the rails wouldn't let the log back down and I couldn't get it up on the bunks.  Even though I got it on the mill, it's still in the field.  I used all my time loading it!  If I have this problem again, I'm going to try to figure out how to add another snatch block or two to the system...

WDH.... pecan is the Devil!
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Offline grweldon

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2012, 10:21:29 AM »
GRW, I would be unable to handle the weight of that log with 1 inch cable.Any way to get hold of a loader to make things a easy. ??  What does that log weigh?  Got to [go] over a ton

Kimball

Kimball, the TimberKing rep I spoke to estimated 3500 pounds.  The mill capacity is 5000 pounds.  I only wish I had access to a front end loader on a tractor of some kind.  It's on the list of things to purchase, but it's quite a ways down the road...
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Offline kgbond

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2012, 11:13:24 AM »
Glen, very interested in your rate of speed when cutting. I am going very slow.
I am cutting mostly cedar. After reading your posts, may be I am going TOO slow. I see a lot of heat generation, ie smoke.

Kimball

Offline Buck

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2012, 12:38:47 PM »
GRW, that is one nasty pecan log. That is a tough one to spread your wings on. Your winch and blades AND YOU have really been stressed on this one.
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2012, 01:56:24 PM »
Glen, Some "logs" need sawing and some do not.  Just because a "log" has bark on the outside and wood inside does not necessarily qualify it as a log.  The "log" shown had two large limbs removed and below that several small limbs, and that is only looking at two sides.

After you saw it, the lumber will deal you additional misery.  That freshly sawn knotty lumber will have some interesting and pretty figure, but it is going to twist and be very unstable.  Drying it flat will be virtually impossible.

I believe that the winch cable was trying to tell you something.   :)

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Offline grweldon

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2012, 01:57:25 PM »
Kimball,

I'm not having a problem with heat generation, except that the hydraulic system gets hot, too hot to comfortably touch, but probably not hot enough to cause a burn unless you keep touching for a few seconds.

I'm not really the one to ask about feedrate on anything, as you know, I'm still really new to all this, but all I've read from everybody here is that cedar is relatively easy to cut.  From what I gather, the 10deg. hook blades are what most people use for cedar.  You are using some sort of blade lube/coolant, right?  Water with dishsoap?

Are you getting straight cuts?  About the fastest I've been able to run with the pecan and a 10deg. blade and still get a flat cut is about 4 feet per minute.  I've been told here in this thread that I should be getting up to 30 feet per minute.  I'll be happy if I can get 8-10 feet per minute.

You have a TK2000, right?  You might want to add that in your profile signature line so others know what mill you have and might be able to help... wish I could...
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Offline grweldon

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2012, 02:07:21 PM »
Glen, Some "logs" need sawing and some do not.  Just because a "log" has bark on the outside and wood inside does not necessarily qualify it as a log.  The "log" shown had two large limbs removed and below that several small limbs, and that is only looking at two sides.

After you saw it, the lumber will deal you additional misery.  That freshly sawn knotty lumber will have some interesting and pretty figure, but it is going to twist and be very unstable.  Drying it flat will be virtually impossible.

I believe that the winch cable was trying to tell you something.   :)

Magicman,

I appreciate the wisdom... coming from you I know it is sincere.  The "log" is very difficult indeed and I may be wasting my time with it, but I'm not really ready to quit with it yet.  All of the lumber I've milled so far has come from this tree.  Yes, it is cupping and twisting somewhat and will probably continue, but I think that no matter what, I'll be gaining valuable experience, I'm getting good exercise, and some of the wood is beautiful.  What I'll be able to use it in is another question.  I may have to burn it all!  There is a bunch of pecan around here and I should probably get the most knowledge I can in dealing with it instead of letting it frighten me off.

The large end of this "log" was cut right at the root.  The place where you thought a large branch was cut off was actually a bulge in the tree, probably not a burl, but some sort of trauma that healed.  I had to whittle it down to get it to fit between the carriage.  On the other face it is clear.  About 90% of the wood I have cut from this tree has been reaction wood.  Even if I can't use it, it will probably be best to see how it behaves when cut, then how it dries, and then how (if) it can be dressed in any way and used somehow.

So, if I hear you correctly, you are telling me that if a customer approached you about milling this log, you would try to steer them clear of it?   ;)
Timberking 1400, Ford 3910 Tractor, John Deere 350B Crawler/Loader

Offline kgbond

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2012, 03:05:17 PM »
Thanks Glen, using pinesol and water, getting about 8 feet in 2 minutes. I am slow because I am unsure of what I am doing. Only have used 4 blades so far, so I don't know if I am harming them or not as they have not been sharpened.

Kimball 

Offline Magicman

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2012, 07:07:37 PM »
So, if I hear you correctly, you are telling me that if a customer approached you about milling this log, you would try to steer them clear of it?   ;) 

Since I know that the customer would not be getting any value for his money, I would rather saw it for him free than to charge for sawing it.  Long after I leave a saw job, my product serves as a reminder to the customer about the quality of my sawing.  He may not remember that the quality of the log was poor, but he would remember who sawed it.

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Offline wood monger

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2012, 07:43:21 PM »
I thought sweetgum was the devil.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2012, 08:14:23 PM »
Small cable like that is relatively easy to eye splice .Cut the frayed ends off including that 29 cent swedge fitting .Lay out about 6-8 inchs of cable parted in two pieces  .Half the strands each side then wrap them back in an eye around themselves .Cut the excess off and either use another swedge fitting around the juncture of the strand ends or a Crosby .

Not to make sport of that cable rigging but quit truthfully that type cable termination is unsafe but cheap to do which is why they do it .

Offline Delawhere Jack

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2012, 11:32:44 PM »
I don't see any chain in the photo. Search the forum for "parbuckle".

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2012, 04:48:54 AM »
I'm not familiar with the term parbuckle .If it's the same as rolling a log using a chain I can put a picture on of rolling an aprox 12,000 pound log onto a machinery trailer .

We always called it "side hauling " .Fact someplace my mother has a picture of her father side hauling a big log in about 1940 using a pair of big Belgian geldings .2 horse power more or less .

Offline Magicman

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2012, 08:10:11 AM »
The local term here is Cross Hauling.  If you mentioned "Parbuckle" someone would be trying to hitch up their overalls.
 

 
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Offline grweldon

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2012, 08:17:54 AM »
So a chain is a better way to do this eh?  I did notice that the 1/4" cable was cutting in to the log and I was wondering if this might have been one of the reasons it wouldn't pull, just too much friction to overcome.

I re-worked the loop temporarily.  TimberKing is sending me a new winch instead of just a cable kit.  They had the winch in stock and they would have had to order the cable kit.  I didn't think about temporarily fixing the end before the new winch was on the way.

In any case, the log is now lumber!
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2012, 09:18:06 AM »
I don't know from your picture what your pulling arrangement was, but you always need the Y arrangement (as shown above) close to the trailer.  This Y could be chain, cable, or strap.  This will prevent the log from twisting and you loosing control toward the end of your loading.  There are many pictures of my loading in my gallery.  I am sure that other members also have pictures of their loading arrangements.
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Offline grweldon

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2012, 10:28:17 AM »
I see... I didn't catch the Y arrangement.  TK has you loading the log by looping the cable around the log.  No Y.  I think the spring-loaded dogs on the ramps are supposed to do the job of keeping the log stable.  Thanks for the tip...
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Offline Delawhere Jack

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2012, 10:32:15 AM »
I see... I didn't catch the Y arrangement.  TK has you loading the log by looping the cable around the log.  No Y.  I think the spring-loaded dogs on the ramps are supposed to do the job of keeping the log stable.  Thanks for the tip...

Try it, you'll like it.  ;D You just need to make sure that you hook the chain in such a way that it won't get pulled all the way to the winch before the log is on the deck.

The chain creates two points of contact which makes the log much easier to control.

Offline Cypressstump

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2012, 10:36:09 AM »
Those spring dogs work fairly well when clean, but as bark and chips lodge in them, the log will get cattywompass on ya pretty quick when loading.
Stump

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Offline grweldon

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2012, 10:47:32 AM »
I always thought it was "caddywompass"!   :D
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Offline Cypressstump

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2012, 01:44:32 PM »
I always thought it was "caddywompass"!   :D

ahh,, I'm further South than you. ;D
Stump

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Offline grweldon

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Re: Electric winch cable broken...
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2012, 02:36:15 PM »
Well, I'm just a "naturalized" southerner.  I was born in Michigan.  They call me a Yankee, but I'm really a mid-westerner!   :D
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