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Author Topic: Pine Floor  (Read 4196 times)

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Offline etat

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Pine Floor
« on: March 09, 2004, 01:42:12 PM »
Today I bought  enough pine floor to do the floors in my upstairs.  I'm sure this has been sitting (in the dry) in the lumber yard awhile.  I don't know what the moisture content of it is.  I'm pretty sure I'll take it upstairs and stack it to let it acclimate to the room.  Honest questions.  How long do you think?   Should I run a fan?  Should the rooms be kept heated, and if so at what temp?  Should it be stickered and stacked, or just stacked?  Any comments and advise appreciated.  Oh, it'll be D Grade Pine.
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Offline beenthere

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2004, 02:54:27 PM »
Stickered, for sure. Heat equivalent to room conditions where you will lay it.  Just a thought - don't overload the floor with the stack.

I'd check the moisture content, to find out what it is, and then check it again periodically to know when it has stopped losing moisture. One typical board could be used for this, although without a fan, it should be one in the middle of the stack.

Outside winter conditions likely are high Relative Humidity, and inside winter conditions are likely to be low RH. You will want to know the MC of the wood in the beginning and in the end, before laying (at least I would).  
south central Wisconsin
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Offline karl

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2004, 04:15:46 PM »
Stickered, stacked, maybe even weighted. Away from walls for air circulation, watchout for concentrating too much load in one place, out of direct sun, heated, some air movement. I'd probl'y let it set a month or so- hard tellin' not havin' a feel for how dry it is now. Know anyone with a meter?
"I ask for wisdom and strength, Not to be superior to my brothers, but to be able to fight my greatest enemy, myself"  - from Ojibwa Prayer.

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2004, 04:25:32 PM »
I got my Mini-Ligno pin type meter on ebay, for $65.00. ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
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-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline Den Socling

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2004, 04:29:18 PM »
Let us know how it compares with baked samples.

Offline etat

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2004, 03:02:24 PM »
Well Den, I decided to give that a try.  I kinda drug out a board from the middle of the stack and cut me a sample of it.  I weighed it, recorded the measurement of it, and then put it in the microwave for one minute. It came out pretty hot, so I wrapped it in a paper towel, let it cool, and when I weighed it again there wasn't much noticible difference.  SO....I was pretty sure I hadn't dried it enough.  Put er back in the microwave for two minutes, this time it came out hot, and the end steaming.   Let er cool a minute, and heck says I, I'll try er again.  Put it back in the microwave, set on two minutes, and ABOUT CAUGHT IT ON FIRE!!!!!  Grabbed a towel, and threw it out in the yard where it continued to smoke, and blacken.  

I'm kinda thinking I pushed the drying schedule a bit too hard.  SO........I need a little help with information on drying samples without BURNING DOWN THE HOUSE!!!!

thanks, charles
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Offline Den Socling

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2004, 03:10:50 PM »
Microwaves with those little turn tables work best. If you don't have a turn table, see if it has 'defrost' that gives short burst of power.

Offline beenthere

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2004, 03:15:37 PM »
Place in the oven at 200 F until it doesn't lose anymore weight when checking the weight periodically. The higher the moisture content, the longer that will be. In lab tests, I'd leave green wood in an oven at 200 F for 24 hours to get it completely dry.

For a microwave, you might try putting it in a defrost cycle mode.  Or a slower cycle to keep it from overheating the moisture in the wood. It could explode like popcorn if heated too fast. Again, it is dry when it doesn't lose any more weight between checking weight.

Others may be able to give more help (as Den already did).
:)
south central Wisconsin
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Offline etat

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2004, 03:55:05 PM »
Thanks, on defrost, and turntable, four  trips through appx 1 to 2 minutes each, letting cool down each time.  Each time wrapped in tissue. .  Last time was 2 minutes, and the sample was not getting as hot, so I assume most of the moisture is gone. Weight before cooking, 2 grams.  Weight after cooking, 18.5 grams.
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2004, 05:19:54 PM »
Uhhhhh.  "Weight before cooking, 2 grams.  Weight after cooking, 18.5 grams."

Is this correct??? ??? or a typo ??? ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline etat

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2004, 05:56:21 PM »
ya got me back! ;D ;D

Yep, shoulda been 20 before, and 18.5 after. :) :)
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2004, 06:18:26 PM »
If yer tryin to confuze me, it's werkin ::) ::)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline beenthere

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2004, 06:44:40 PM »
So you are getting 8 % mc for your sample?
south central Wisconsin
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Offline etat

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2004, 07:28:54 PM »
Well, I don't know much about wood and moisture but I'm pretty sure it's not that dry.  I'm fixing to go out to the house again, get a bigger piece, check it, and take my time and dry and weigh it again.

Fla. I'm confused too.
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Offline beenthere

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2004, 07:45:25 PM »
Ckate:  How many times did you cook it, weigh it, and get the same weight?  If you get three weighings after cooking that are the same (not just close, but the same), then I would expect the piece to be dry. Also, be sure the original "un-cooked" weight is immediately after sampling from the original board. Make the sample large enough that your scale isn't rounding the weights you are recording and giving you errors. If the un-cooked weight was closer to 20.5g and the cooked closer to 18.25g, the mc would be 12 %.  A larger sample will help that accuracy, but will take longer to cook out the water in the microwave.

Your suspicion that the wood is higher than 8% is probably correct, and the piece wasn't completely dry when cooked. Need to get all the water out to get an accurate mc and not lose any wood to pyrolosis in the meantime.
;D
south central Wisconsin
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Offline etat

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2004, 07:51:04 PM »
I just went  out and pulled a board out of the middle of the stack.  I cut a bigger piece that weighs 47 grams.  For the next hour or so, or however long it takes I will be microwaving, and cooling.  I promise you, by the time I'm through I will know that it is dry, and maybe give someone a chance to come up with better numbers.  I sure would hate to put down this flooring before it's ready.  Also I can absolutely say there will be some guess work with the scales.  I'll do the best I can.  
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Offline Tom

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2004, 09:41:48 AM »
It's more important to find the equilirium point where the the wood will live, I think.  If the wood is super dry when put down and the ambiant moisture is high, then the floor will swell after installation.   The wood fibers in the board will be crushed and you will end up with gaps anyway.  I know that "dry" is important but "movement" is what you are trying to stop. :)
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Offline etat

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2004, 11:01:21 AM »
Well allright then, I'm pretty sure that I'm still confused.  The next sample weighed 47 grams, pretty sure rounding it off.  After a few trips through the microwave and then in the oven @ 200 degrees for the rest of the night the piece now weighs appx. 44 grams, rounded off in the same direction.  After taking out of the oven, other trys in the microwave did not change the weight.  
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Offline beenthere

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2004, 11:46:09 AM »
Sounds like you have it dry, and I would believe it to be 7 - 8 % mc. That is emc of about 45% Relative Humidity. Is that believable for the conditions this pine has been stored prior to moving it into your house?  
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Offline Tom

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2004, 11:49:03 AM »
Here is the link to the wood handbook that is listed in our link library.  It hasn't the answer but has the info that helps to understand the answer.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm

I've been told that it takes several days of slow heating and cooling in a  microwave to accomplish what you are attempting.  I'd guess, (take it with a grain of salt 'cause I'm not an expert) that it would take several days or even weeks in an oven to dry a piece of wood all the way through.  Look at how long it takes for a kiln and it is designed to remove moisture.  Perhaps you need to widen your window of examination a bit and not be in too big of a hurry. :)
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Offline etat

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2004, 11:52:59 AM »
The pine was stored in some overhead racks, about 10 feet up  at the lumber co, inside, however it was an unheated shed and ocassionally had doors open to the weather.  For the past week it has been upstairs in my house, with a small heater running, and a fan placed to blow air through it.
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Offline woodmills1

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Re: Pine Floor
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2004, 05:57:00 AM »
Try 30 second cycles on 50 or 60 per cent heat in the microwave.  Use a quality balance that can measure to at least a tenth of a gram accuracy.  continue to heat and weigh until there is no change for at least 2 heat cycles.
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