Battle of the bandmills

[Thehardway]

OK guys (and Gals), hopefully this can be done in a civil manner.  My recent post for recommendations on a new mill received a lot of "buy a X and you won't be sorry" type posts.

So here is a chance to back up your reccommendation with real specifics and determine who makes the ultimate saw.

I did quite a bit of poking around and reading and I received some very conflicting information as to why brand "A" is superior to brand "B".  In some cases what one manufacturer claims as a positive another claims is all wrong.  For instance, steel on steel wheels (cooks) vs belted wheels (most brands) vs. pneumatic tires (Turner)

What I would like to really know is what particular features you, as a sawyer, think makes a saw great out of the following list:

1. High horsepower (what is the best HP to capacity ratio?)
2. A particular brand engine (is it really worth the extra money or is power power)
3. A diesel engine (is it really worth the extra weight)
4. Heavy walled steel construction (what constitutes heavy  1/4", 3/8" 2x2 2x3 etc. and does more weight make a "portable" mill better or just harder to transport)
5. Centrifugal clutch (is "gas and go" better and is there really more cost and does a centrifugal wear out sooner)
6. Mechanical lever clutch (are they really cheaper and more dependable or just a way for manufacturer to increase profit)
7. Hydraulic band tensioning (is it worth the additional $)
8. Replaceable guide bearings (are they better than wheels, ie. less friction, or just cheaper to replace)
9. Guide wheels (do they improve cut)
10. Friction block guides (is there any benefit cost or otherwise)
11. Balanced cast wheels (how smooth must a bandmill really run and what is an acceptable tolerance for wheels)
12. Belted wheels ( all kinds of claims here, they absorb vibration, dissipate heat, prevent slippage, extend blade life etc.)
13. Separate drive belt/pulley  (Does this significantly outperform a bandmill where the drive belt is directly under the band on the drive wheel)
14. Push vs. crank or mechanical drive (which cuts more accurately)
15. Availability of "off-the-shelf" parts at "NAPA"  (I like this one)
14. Multiple valves for blade lube drip  (Is it cheaper to make your own the way you want it?)
15. "patented Log Dogging" systems (Everyone claims theirs is faster, simpler, better)
16. beds and bunks  (haven't seen one yet that didn't claim to be superior for some reason)
17. bed supports and Leveling devices  (Are they even necessary if the bed is so heavy duty)
18. throat size vs max log size (seems like some unrealistic claims by all in this department unless they are milling telephone poles)
19. powder coat vs enamel, galvanized, aluminum, stainless etc.  (Is rust really that much of a problem on well maintained machines)
20. Standard/interchangeable blade size (any benefit here?  all the blade manufacturers I have dealt with cut and weld length to spec)
21. Location of manufacture US, Canada, Mexico, China (hard to find nuts, bolts, steel and bearings that are US made even if the saw might be assembled in a particular country it is likely full of Chinese components or materials. Shameful)
22. Customer and technical support (for a great saw you should never have to call them right?)
23. Cantilever vs 2 post vs four post (does one really cut more accurately than another)
24. Besides hydrualics and automation, what really increases speed and production?
25. Raising and lowering (Threaded rod, chain,cable,winch, crank etc.)
25. Does orange paint make a saw work better? (or maybe stickers)

Wow, that's a long list and I'm not sure I got all of them.  Feel free to add.

I guess to sum up my feelings, is there any one manufacturer that has made any significant advancement in design or technology in recent years that puts them way ahead of the rest of the field.  It seems there is little significant difference in bandmill designs.  Some manufacturers put them together better and use higher quality parts which is reflected in sticker price and some are better at marketing features than others.  Just about any of them will produce better lumber than you can buy in a big box store for half the money.

Anyone care to share specifically why a particular mill is superior or what they like best and worst about it?

What I did not like about my old Hudson Oscar 18 was:

Time consuming guard removal to change blades. (required wrenches and easy to lose washers and nuts
hard to access tensioning
cable lifting system broke.
sawdust fouled wheels on track
powder coating peeled off
Hard to get perfectly square cants with the stop/dogging system

What I liked about it:

could be picked up and transported in small pickup by one man
Track extensions could be easily fabricated out of local steel
Engine started on first pull every time
low price, cheap blades, easy on gas

[Leigh Family Farm]

This will be an awesome thread for all the people looking to start out in the sawmill industry. Thanks and I look forward to reading the replies!

[Kansas]

Let me take a stab at a few of them. In no particular order.

22 Customer support is an absolute necessity. The mill will break down. Every mill. Just like every car breaks down. But you can't pull the mill to the local mechanic and get fixed. Unless you got one heck of a mechanic. You will have to work on it. Remember the more electronic and hydraulic and computer stuff on it, the more you will need customer support.

23 We run both cantilever and 4 post. They are all stationary. But remembering back in the days of having a portable cantilever, they were so easy to set up. Set up right, either one will cut straight lumber. My guess is the cantilever would be the easiest one to set up. Just don't try to move a stationary one with no axle under it. I got the pictures to prove that.

4 Engineering makes all the difference in the world. Our "other mill" is a 4 post. Loads of metal in it. The cantilever one is in my estimation would be far more stable in setup in a portable situation. Weight doesn't mean everything. The right metal, at the right places, makes all the difference.

7 hydraulic tensioning is fine. But we ran one for years that just had a spring. It worked fine too. Depending on the brand you go with, you may not really get a choice. Some mills come with hydraulic tension on them standard.

Concerning steel on steel vs belted. We own both. We have had the steel on steel for about 7 years. We use it every day, and still haven't had them recrowned. Our biggest problem is getting them off and getting them somewhere to get them crowned. We usually cannot afford the down time. I think they need it; still we don't have trouble with the blade jumping off. They just look like they could use it. Belted, no problem with that. Outside of having to replace belts on a regular basis. I really don't see an advantage of one over the other.

10 Friction block guides. If you mean bottom support, outside of a smaller resaw, I don't see much advantage. (Arky disagrees with me on this). Seems to me if a blade wants to dive, its gonna dive. The problem is the blade.

6 If you run the mill all day, pulling down on that lever all day gets old.

Thats enough for now

[Tom L]

I think this is one you are going to have to figure out for yourself.

make a checklist like you have above, rate your answers on how you feel something is good or bad

say on a one to ten scale.

then you have to go and visit each mill. really study each one and rate them all on their plusses and minuses,

I could almost bet that in the end , your checklist's, all added up on each machine will have an almost equal score.

some will shine in some areas and some will do poor in others. but they all will cut wood and do the job.

you will have to make up your own mind and get the one that best fits your agenda

[tcsmpsi]

First, there is no 'ultimate sawmill' of the nature you describe.  They all have pros and cons.  If I were going to be concentrated on portable sawing, I would likely go WM for their overall design.  Ultimately, a swinger and a band wouild be really swell.

The most prevelant issues, as I find, would be amount of log bunks (more the better), dogs/clamps.  Then, hydraulics would first be log turning, then log loading.  After that, it would become more convenience...except for maybe a GOOD debarker.

With me, the time/maintenance of 'extras', for the time they 'save' just doesn't pan out.  Moving lumber/logs/slabs efficiently are REAL time savers that can be minimal to no maintenance.

I looked at the saw you mentioned (as well as others, when I was thinking.

No matter how many posts a sawhead has, it will flex some.  The real question is, is it designed to stay true while flexing?

I like simple/effective/efficient.  My mill has a crank/cable type set up for the head raising/lowering.  Over the years, I have gotten quite proficient with it and the scale and have experienced no problems.  The only time might be a factor compared to another method, would be movements of a foot or more at a time.  Mine runs with a 13 hp Kohler, which the only problem has been worn pull ropes.  I utilize a large bolt for tensioning, using the same method of tensioning as on my verticle bandsaws.  Pitch (tone) and flutter (for different blade style/manufacturer) and then set a torque wrench to that.  No matter how many/type of blade guides are utilized, it is a bandsaw.  I am still using the same belts ('tires") on my band wheels.  I have new ones ready...and have had for a few years, now.  I do like the greaseable (with grease fittings) roller guides on mine.  All bearings are 'off the shelf'. 
The new model of my saw has solid steel wheels.  I have been thinking of getting a replacement head, for when mine needs significant rebuilding, but am not sure of the steel wheels.  There again, pros and cons. 

I have no idea of how many thousands of board feet of lumber I have milled.  A lot, I know that. 

I do know that I so much like the expanded metal cages for wheel housings (cooler, constant view, broken blade catching, no sawdust build up, etc), that I would try to incorporate that into any mill I had.

I have had as big of logs that my mill would handle on it.  I shy away from them as much as possible.  Though the mill says, 30", 28" is all that will go between the guides.  If straight enough, one could whittle on it, but the turning, that's were hydraulics would be handy.

I am not set up for 'portable', though I did have it built specifically to be so, and would take about 15 mins., and I could be.

In the end, I could not have asked for better for my needs to fit my pocketbook and serenity.   ;)

[Joanie]

Being that my WM LT40hd, is the only mill I have ever ran, I guess I'm loyal to Wood Mizer. I will say If this was a manual mill I don't think I could handle turning and loading.

[dboyt]

In the time it took me to put this response together, I notice several other posts have been made, so please excuse any redundancy.  The perfect mill for one person might not be a good fit for another.  I based my decision (Norwoood MX 34) on portability, solid feel, and the need to cut odd-sizes and shapes of logs, though I know of sawyers that do serious production on the same model.

Adequate power depends on what you're cutting.  If working with softwood and not pushing the size limitations, the smaller h.p. option is workable.   I've pushed the 34" diameter limits of my Norwood MX34 cutting oak, and even the 23 h.p. Briggs engine luggs down if I'm not careful.  With a sharp blade, for 95% of the cutting I do (under 26" diameter), it is a good match.  I've never talked to a sawyer who has said "gee, I wish I had a smaller engine."

Engine:  Other than staying away from the cheap Chinese engines (which most manufacturers do) I don't have much brand preference.  Two cylinder engines give smoother power than singles.  I like the electric start, since it makes it easier to shut down the engine while loading logs—I enjoy a few minutes of quiet between logs, and it might save a thimbleful of gas.  The battery also provides auxiliary 12 Volts for an electric winch.  I'd like to see a heavy fuel filter, settling bowl, and industrial air filter on the engine, but most manufacturers don't go those extra steps.

Heavy wall construction is less important than rigid construction.  The two are not necessarily the same.  A well engineered mill can be both light and strong.  Portable mills typically are not as well supported as stationary mills, so it is important.  Will it stand up to having a 1,000 pound log dropped on it?  If being used as a portable mill, it should be road legal (lights, fenders, safety chain, etc.).  A mill over 3,000 pounds should have electric brakes (required in some states).  A couple of other things I appreciate about my mill is that it weighs about 1,800 pounds and is well balanced, with about 80 pounds of tongue weight, which makes it possible to move by hand, if necessary.  Some mills have axles at the back of the mill, which forces you to make wide turns.  Axles near the center of the mill make it much easier to maneuver in tight places.  Most use a 2" hitch (good), but don't try to tow it on a 1-7/8" ball, unless you want to test your safety chains.

I like the control and simplicity of the mechanical belt on a manually controlled idler pulley, which is linked to the throttle control.  I'd rather replace the belt a dozen times (as long as I've got a spare handy) than replace a single centrifugal clutch.

I've had guide wheels seize up on me, which is a pain.  They also take up more room than ceramic bearings, which means a little less cutting width.  Some are adjustable so that you can tweak the blade angle.  My current mill uses ceramic blocks, and I can't say that the quality of cut is any different than with the wheel guides.  Ceramic guides are simpler to adjust, but it is a pain to thread the blade through them.

Run the mill at different  rpms and feel for any vibration or flutter in the saw blade.   If you can't get rid of flutter by tensioning the blade, you will not be able to cut straight boards.  While I like the idea of the precision of machined, balanced, and crowned metal surface band wheels, I've got no complaints about the quality of the lumber from my tight belt band wheels.  Replacing the belt is a pain, but it can be done in the field without removing the band wheel and sending it out for resurfacing.

The first mill I had was a crank type feed.  It only took me a few logs before I removed the crank mechanism.  No real complaint about cranking while cutting, but it just took too long to crank it back after the cut.  With the push system, you just give it a shove and it coasts back to the starting position.  I added brakes to the carriage so that it doesn't  move unexpectedly when a gust of wind catches it.

Bearings, belts, and bolts should all be off-the-shelf, and are, in most cases.  It is less important for non-wearing parts.  On a side note, I prefer bearings with grease zerks to sealed bearings.  When I give them a shot of grease, I can feel them for excessive play or heat buildup.  There will be some non-standard parts, such as ceramic blade guides, but it is good idea to have a spare set anyway.

The mill should have two valves (on/off, and drip control).  It is easy to add a second valve for drip feed so that it isn't much of an issue, but if the manufacturer didn't put one in, I'd have to question what other shortcuts they took.  Definitely want two valves.

I like clamps and dogs that move straight up and down, instead of pivoting.  The cam lock system on my mill holds securely, and I've got it modified so that I can cut the final board 1" thick with plenty of clearance.  Both the clamps and the dogs adjust in and out on the Norwood 34, which makes it easier to hold down some of the odd-shaped logs I run across.  Only complaint is that clamping is a two-handed proposition, and it is sometimes hard to hold the log in place for the second slabbing cut and clamp at the same time.

Beds and bunks take a lot of abuse, but I haven't had any problems.  One thing I like about my mill is that the bunks tend to shed bark or debris.

Minimum of six supports for a portable mill—wheels don't count.  Cantilever mills may be another matter—I'll let the WoodMizer folks address that.  In any case the mill needs to be level front to back and side to side for proper cutting.

Throat size will almost always be less than the max diameter.  If you plan on producing wide slabs, throat is important.  Norwood advertises 28" max throat, but I've gotten 30" by removing the blade guides.  Maximum log diameter assumes that you're going to whittle the log down to a size smaller than the throat distance.  This can provide some real cutting challenges, and everything has to be lined up to achieve the max diameter.

Major manufacturers will build blades to your length requirements, so you're not stuck with purchasing blades from the mill manufacturer.  If you have a mill built by a major manufacturer and choose to buy blades from a third party, you can usually tell them which mill you use, and they'll make sure you get what you need.

Location of manufacture—add  eastern Europe to the list, as there is at least one major manufacturer that imports its mills from there.  I know for a fact that my mill was assembled in the U.S., because it came as a kit, and I assembled it in my barn.  I like the idea of using U.S. and Canadian built equipment.  Too bad there aren't any small engines built on this continent.

Trust me, you'll call customer service.  Norwood has been great.  They call back when they say they will, and in many cases, I talked with the person who actually designed many of the features of the mill.

Cantilever track mills have a very loyal following, so they must cut well.  On any mill, if the track gets bent (as in backing a Skid Steer into it), it is difficult, if not impossible to straighten.  I like the idea of a track that is stout enough not to bend with some abuse, but easy to repair if it is damaged.  The Norwood track comes in 4' sections that can be easily replaced.

Speeding up production?  Sharp blades, experience, and keeping the blades out of the clamps and other metal objects.  Mill layout and material handling are important.  A deck that lets you load the logs quickly onto the mill, efficient handling of slabs, and a good way to move sawdust out of the way mean more time with the blade in the wood.  Set up a roller system that quickly gets the boards where you need them.  If you have to carry a board or slab more than a couple of steps, figure out a better way.  Norwood has an optional roller system that fits right onto the track.  Anything that speeds up log turning and clamping will be a big benefit, especially on a manual mill.  If I had one hydraulic option, it would be a log turner.  I'd also love to have an edger to speed up the process.

[drobertson]

some one correct me if I am wrong, but It seems like I remember WMZ winning the last portable mill shoot out.  But in any case there are as mentioned so many factors to take into account. I have heard that many of the four post designs have just a bit more vibration than the cantelever ones. This is hear say but it comes from a reliable source.  I like how some of the four post cut into clean wood after the first slab, but that does not automatically make the sale. I Just love the Accuset II On my Lt 40 super. It is fast, smooth and accurate.  I have heard some other softwares are a bit jumpy, you might check this out in person. Support, after the sale is on the top of the list. And this goes part replacement parts availabilty.  I have never been let down by WMZ.   Got to go now, just talking about it makes me want to go cut some more pine,   

[Solomon]

Well......  other than a small lumbermate that I picked up two days ago, The only mill I've ever run is a large hyd band mill , I've had a logmaster  LM4 for nearly five years. 
You ask is frame/ bed support neccessary ?
  YES, YES, YES!!
My machine's  deck frame is costructed of 1/4 inch thick  3inch x6inch steel tube.  About 30 feet long or a little longer.  The whole mill is 37 1/2 ft.   It came equiped with 8 leveling jacks for a reason.
when I'm towing it (without the jacks of course)  ,it flexes some with no log on it.  can you inmagine a two thousand pound log on it with no support in the center?
  It also has steel on steel band wheels and a hydaulic tensioner,  works fine.   As for the motor,  I don't know how well smaller engines turn the blade but I can tell you that a diesel is the way to go.  Mine has a 51 hp   4 cylinder perkins diesel , and I'm here to tell you, I've yet to find a log that has given it the slightest challange.
My opinion, when it comes to horse power,  more is better.
  I saw a Wood   Mizer LT 70  with a sizable diesel motor  slice up a 36 inch pecan log 14 feet long in 25 minutes cutting 8/4 and it didn't even grunt.
Obviously you don't put a big diesel on a hobby mill, but I'd say " buy all the horse power you can afford.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

 

 

[customsawyer]

This is like asking which is better Ford, Dodge, or GM. They are all good you just need to find the one that works best in your application. ;)

[boatman]

This is like asking which is better Ford, Dodge, or GM. ;)

Well, Ford, Obviously.  So what is the Ford of sawmills?

[Delawhere Jack]

I don't think the Bar exam has that many questions....... :D

Get "Enough Mill", but don't go overboard. If your budget is still what you mentioned a few days ago, you're options are going to be limited, a diesel engine and hydraulics are out of the question.

Given your budget I'd focus on rugged construction for the deck and dead simple everything else. Powder coated iron ain't worth diddly when it's bent...... ;D

[WDH]

 

:D :D :D

That is not too subliminal.

[dboyt]

I've got to weigh in on the comment about Woodmizer winning the Shoot-out.  They were the only team in their class to use an edger with their mill.  Especially for a two-man team, that saved them a lot of time, so the comparison between that mill and the others in their class is not valid-- a point they don't put in their advertisements.

Rather than spend the budget on the sawmill, consider spending less on the mill and setting up a kiln and a planer in addition.

By the way... '87 4wd flatbed Chevy... and that orange paint looks great on my chain saw!

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

 

:D :D :D

That is not too subliminal.

You have to scroll by it REALLY FAST for it to work......and the next thing you know, your calling 1-800-553-0182 saying yes....I'd like to order a LT70 with Edger. 

[Okrafarmer]

For me one of the most important features is the frame rigidity. This is because I hate having to constantly tweak the adjusters to straighten it out. I had that problem on the Turner, and my cousin had it on his Thomas.

[thecfarm]

Okrafarmer,did he have the no flex track add on? I had to clean out my outriggers the other day on it. I can jack up one end and the end and middle will come up for cleaning.I never move mine. Mine has 2x4-¼ inch tubing under it too.

[Okrafarmer]

Okrafarmer,did he have the no flex track add on? I had to clean out my outriggers the other day on it. I can jack up one end and the end and middle will come up for cleaning.I never move mine. Mine has 2x4-¼ inch tubing under it too.

I'm not sure, but he switched it for a Norwood MK4 and never looked back. I wasn't there at the time. I was unaware of them having the add-on. This was probably 10 or more years ago.

[thecfarm]

That is kinda when I bought mine. I also brought the add on for the longer track too. I almost brought the one for the bigger throat too. But decided on the standard one. I think WM runs the 12.5 blades too.

[Okrafarmer]

I'm not sure when he bought his, or whether it was new or used at the time. He lives in Albion, BTW.

[Mooney]

some one correct me if I am wrong, but It seems like I remember WMZ winning the last portable mill shoot out. 

The ShootOut has rightly gone away from a 'we won, you lost' style competition, to what it should be: a place to demonstrate mills together. One of the reasons that Wood-Mizer and other brands enjoy bringing mills there is so that people can check them out running side-by-side: so that you can see 'The Proof's in the Performance'. It's true that the manual mill we entered finished four logs 22 minutes before anyone else... however, that mill is pricier than the other mills that were being run, and like we mention in any advertisement referencing the ShootOut numbers, it was with a single blade edger, which showcases how efficient you can be using various equipment we offer.

There were a lot of great mills present at the last ShootOut, and each has many accomplishments from the event to be proud of!  8)

If I were to offer any advice to the poster, it would be to see some local mills. This type of discussion on brand preference comes up every month, and is always the same. Call manufacturers, we/they will give you names of local guys with the mill model you're looking for. Also, stay in your price range. If you don't have the money for certain features/functions, then don't worry about them, stay focused on the mills that do fit your price point and goals. We wish you the best with your future sawing endeavors! 

[Thehardway]

These are all great replies and some good info here

First, there is no 'ultimate sawmill' of the nature you describe.  They all have pros and cons.

This is the exact reason for my post.  It seems all the branded mills have some sort of compromise and a marketing line to say why it is ok rather than make the needed changes to produce the absolute best.
The spirit of this thread is not for someone to tell me what brand/model I should or shouldn't buy I want to know what can be improved on the existing brands you own, so that if a bloke was to build his own from scratch he could incorporate all the goodies and none of the pitfalls. I would like to build this a few years down the road and start hoarding bits and pieces now.  Who knows, a manufacturer might see this and build it before I can get to it and then we will have the ultimate saw.  I get the idea that some have spent so much on their saw rig they are ashamed to admit there are a few things that don't work as great as they would like or should so they just keep telling themselves they have the best.

So far I've got

1.  A two cylinder gas or diesel engine with a min Blade cut to HP ratio = 1:1  (ie.  24 inch throat =24HP)  54" throat =54 HP  (a little Yanmar or kubota might just be the trick)
2.  A bed and carriage system that is not necessarily heavy in weight but that is rigid and durable (I'm thinking a welded tubular aluminum carriage/frame and a steel bed similar to what Norwood has or perhaps a trussed design)
3. Good bedframe supports with quick setup/teardown time (some pinned, tube in tube legs with acme thread fine adjustment for leveling Cheap quick and simple.)
4. Push beats crank
5. Electric start with alternator for 12v aux. acc. or maybe even lights for night time sawing?

[tcsmpsi]

Well, hardway, I'll be a little candid...reservedly so.  In the end, my decision was founded, amongst other things, on the manufacturer being less than 2 hrs away.  I had them build me a mill, at that time, not of their normal design.  It, a dozen blades and a cant hook, with me going to pick it up, watching the final fitting of things, cost me less than 6 grand.  A view of my sawmilling photos will give more information on the mill.  I don't speak of it by name, unless specifically asked, because it is not a sponsor mill.  Certainly, all sponsor mills were considered.  Thoroughly.  Some of the things I like about my particular mill are not on my manufacturer's other models, or on other mills.  It is tough, true, simple and innovative. 

Hydraulic log turner/dogs/clamps are about the only additions/changes I might would make.

[dboyt]

...like we mention in any advertisement referencing the ShootOut numbers, it was with a single blade edger, which showcases how efficient you can be using various equipment we offer.

I stand corrected, and my apologies.  I was careless with the comment about WoodMizer not advertising use of the edger.  The demo with the edger certainly showed the value of a piece of equipment that is all too often overlooked on small sawmills.  Anyone who has ever put a board up edgewise for edging knows what a pain in the neck it is edge on the sawmill!

[drobertson]

I need to ask for a bit of forgiveness, I did not mean that WMZ is the best, but I feel like it is for me.  I have the single blade edger and for the most part, do not use it.  When I cut out ties, and roll the logs, most of the flitches are the same size. I edge on the mill and the log is done. For the most part whether it is one inch or two inch, the drop to take off the bark is pretty typical. and the ease of the taperd mill frame allows me to pull the boards without too much strain. I am backwards, at least a few ole timers have said, but my custormers are happy and I am too. I have seen some pretty good Bakers running, and was impressed. The Logmaster was a brute, but really suited for a two man operation.  I appreiciate an offbearer, and really make ground, but this is not always feasible. The decision on which mill to run is really determined by the end goal. The WMZ LT-40 super just makes my operation what it is, a humble mill with a quality product in a timely time frame. Easy to clean, maintain, and move when required.  I love sawmilling! but that said, I love to cut steel too!  Maybe WMZ could build some milling machines and lathes for us die hard tool makers. lol  They could call them metal muchers. I don't know just rambling now.

[Delawhere Jack]

For me one of the most important features is the frame rigidity. This is because I hate having to constantly tweak the adjusters to straighten it out. I had that problem on the Turner, and my cousin had it on his Thomas.

That is one of the few complaints I have with my Turner. The feet slip sometimes when you're moving a big log around on it, or if somebody bumps it with a skidsteer. It looks like he puts screw type trailer jacks on them now. I would do the same if I was keeping the mill.

[redbeard]

One thing to consider on wanting a wider throat is when milling the max. Width your blades have to be sharp with lots of set. The further your guides are apart, blade control can be a issue especially knots.

[hackberry jake]

If I remember correctly, didn't ez boardwalk have the highest quality lumber as far as dimensions with the fewest boards that got rejected in the shoot out? I think we all know who makes the best mill (insert picture of something blue for poston)  8)

[sdunston]

One sure thing,They all saw,Some just have a few more options..............just saying.

[Okrafarmer]

One sure thing,They all saw,Some just have a few more options..............just saying.

And let's not forget the operator factor. . . . .

Ducking. . . . .

[Hilltop366]

If I remember correctly, didn't ez boardwalk have the highest quality lumber as far as dimensions with the fewest boards that got rejected in the shoot out? I think we all know who makes the best mill (insert picture of something blue for poston)  8)

How about a Blueberry (that is a quarter under it)



 

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Thanks HILLTOP.....I love BLUEBERRIES!

[hackberry jake]

Poston, do you love blueberries more than oranges?  ;D

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Poston, do you love blueberries more than oranges?  ;D

No, I love Oranges better.......but to comment on Hilltop's picture, when I first looked at it, I thought it was an antique door knob.  :D :D :D :D :D

[Dan_Shade]

What is your production expectation?

Is the mill for hobby, for a business, are you going to do portable work?

[ladylake]

 There are a lot of high quality good cutting mills out there.  HP at least 35hp gas  or 30 hp diesel(if your going to saw a LOT get the diesel) for a 1-1/4 band, guides I like 3"  (turn slower) with a flange on the back set 3/16 behind the blade, toe boards are a must, chain turner is a must, claw turners work but not near as good as a chain turner. For good production computer setworks is a must. Clamp, go hydraulic, my screw type works OK but doesn't have a lot of power and is not the fastest, the hydraulic clamps are way better..  And most important go watch some mills cut for at least a half day.  Steve

[JVK]

If you're going to build the ultimate mill, I would measure the distance between the guide rollers at full open of an LT40 and make yours a bit wider. That is the only complaint I have of my new LT50. The logs I have are just a little to big and I have to spend a lot of time carving to get that outside roller to clear. 3" would be huge!

[Dan_Shade]

JVK, do you know the trick of laying down the backstops and scooting the dog left to give you more room on the right side of the mill?

[JVK]

Hey Dan, I learned that very trick right here on the ff. It's a good one. I cut mainly Red Cedar and they are a bit flairy toward the butt.

[Okrafarmer]

That must be some honking big red cedar.

[dboyt]

If you're going to build the ultimate mill, I would measure the distance between the guide rollers at full open of an LT40 and make yours a bit wider. That is the only complaint I have of my new LT50. The logs I have are just a little to big and I have to spend a lot of time carving to get that outside roller to clear. 3" would be huge!

If you're like me, adding 3" to the throat just means you'll be bringing in bigger logs that still won't fit.  I've pulled the ceramic guides off my Norwood mill a few times to get just a few more inches.  Big saw with a long bar will take care out of those flaired butts (well the ones on the logs, anyway).

[wormy]

i have an older modle lt 40 and the only real thing i would change on it would be the log turner. it has the claw type turner that sometimes lifts the log over the stops. i ran a cooks mill with the chain turner and liked it much better.but dont get me wrong i wouldnt trade mills i think the wm is the best all around built saw and i looked at many saws when i was in the market.

[Hilltop366]

Thanks HILLTOP.....I love BLUEBERRIES!

Your welcome.

Poston, do you love blueberries more than oranges?  ;D

No, I love Oranges better.......but to comment on Hilltop's picture, when I first looked at it, I thought it was an antique door knob.  :D :D :D :D :D

It is a cultivated high bush blueberry that was grown in the lot next to me.

I tell people that we grow the blueberries so big that you have to spit out the seeds.

[Hilltop366]

Sorry to get off track thehardway, but I did want you to thank you for starting this thread, I am always looking for mill build ideas myself and am trying to soak up all the info and ideas from the forum in the meantime.

What I have noticed is that a lot of the complaints and breakdowns once a mill is cutting straight is about electrical issues with controls and accessories.

Hilltop

[drobertson]

I have never had the chance to run one of wmz's newer chain rolling log rollers. And to say the claw is my best friend, I think everyone that has one has done their share of mumbling. the trick is to use the clamp, with the claw, and make sure the weight of the log is balanced on the bed. This makes a big difference.  this is why the double pump is critical. The speed could be quicker, but they are quick enough to get the log rolled.  I just like WMZ  it is low, managable, and very smooth and accurate.