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Author Topic: A log arch build...  (Read 7668 times)

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Offline ljohnsaw

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A log arch build...
« on: October 29, 2012, 03:13:17 AM »
I'm new here and have been absorbing a lot of information.  I've purchased several books on timber framing - and I still want to do it  :D

I should be closing on my new alpine parcel in the next week or so but starting on a building will have to wait until next year.  There is already 2 feet of snow on the ground!  Over the winter, I plan to build a bandmill and any other equipment I may need.  My parcel is sloped but I can get logs up from the lower area or take the mill to them.  So I would need wheels for it.  One other thing I figured I needed was a log arch.  So I trolled CraigsList and came across this:
 

 

The arch is 6'-6" high but only 4'-6" long from the axle to the plate in the front where there is a cross-tube.  I'm planning on getting some additional 2-1/2" tube and extending that length to at least 8', maybe more.  I would insert a short piece of 2-1/4" tube inside each joint for alignment and strength before I weld it up.  The square brackets below I'm going to cut off to increase the ground clearance.  They are there to place timbers to support a propane tank when moving/delivering it.  I have the front lowered all the way to the ground so it would actually sit much higher when attached to my truck.  The tires are almost new LTs with no checking.  They have the nubs on the rubber on the tread except on the very middle.

I haven't tested it yet, but it also has this:
 

 
The cover is broken as well has the remote switch socket.  The owner said I should check out Grainger's but I'm not sure of it's make at this point.

Obviously, it is in need of some diagonal supports (and paint!) but I think it will work for some moderate sized timber.  The distance between the wheels is 3'-6" so my mill will be made to fit inside so I can use it to load it with logs as well as move it.

Now all I need to find is some long steel for my mill rails.

I would appreciate all comments and suggestions.

Thanks!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline hackberry jake

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2012, 06:33:17 AM »
Sweet score! I love Craigslist. Looks like she will do the trick, I am an angle brace fanatic so I would probably weld braces all over that thing, but if it is designed to pick up a full propane tank, those things can't be light.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

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Offline Chuck White

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2012, 08:55:20 AM »
Sweet score! I love Craigslist. Looks like she will do the trick, I am an angle brace fanatic so I would probably weld braces all over that thing, but if it is designed to pick up a full propane tank, those things can't be light.


Not quite as stout as some think! 

Gas companies don't move the big "bullet" type propane tanks until they have been emptied!

But, those propane tank carriers do make a very nice arch!
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and single-tooth setter, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain a Wood-Mizer

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2012, 11:42:38 AM »
Correct, they would not move a full tank!  As is, this thing would collapse under that kind of weight so braces would be needed to haul logs.  Any comments on the overall length it should be?  At first, I was thinking of lowering the arch but now that I want to load my mill with it, it will stay as it.  If you look close just below the little angle brace, you can see that they increased the height about a foot.  I'll need to add a top pulley (it is missing), replace the cable (really frayed) and weld on some hooking chains around the arch where the cable could be secured after going around the log.  That way I could use it to roll a log as well has having a 2-to-1 lifting ratio.  They have a long battery cable and they housed the battery on the front of the trailer.  I'm thinking I'll just add a battery shelf right by the winch to hold my deep cycle battery to have the shortest power run.  I may run a charging cable up to my truck's plug to recharge the battery as I'm hauling the logs around.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Online thecfarm

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2012, 11:50:24 AM »
I have no idea how rugged it is,but those things are really just run on level ground. I might be concerned running a tire over a stump or a rock and putting the weight kinda on one side.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline GDinMaine

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2012, 04:00:15 AM »
ljohnsaw,
You seem to be aware of how these things are used (designed) originally.  The arch will support a relatively light, empty tank.  It would be stationary and the tank is lifted straight up then lowered onto the timbers placed between the horizontal frame members and strapped down to the horizontal frame.  The arch itself was never meant for loads that the dragging of a log exert.  That said.  If braced properly you will have a great logging arch.  If you can, try to find out the weight of one of those tanks.   That will give you a good ballpark on what kind of load it was supposed to transport on the road.  Having built one of these from scratch for an ATV some 7-8 years ago I envy your find.
It's the going that counts not the distance!

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Offline Chuck White

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2012, 05:36:04 AM »
Look it over, you might find a decal that indicates the weight capacity!
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and single-tooth setter, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain a Wood-Mizer

Offline dboyt

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2012, 07:18:40 AM »
Woodweb has a log weight calculator.  To give you an idea, a 20" diameter black oak 10' long weighs about 1,600 pounds.  Axles may be an issue.  A lot of torque on those stub axles.  You might consider putting the wheels directly under the frame, like Norwood does with its log arch.   

    The angle lets the smaller wheels ride over stumps and rocks.  If you use it to load the mill, the arch will need to be long enough to support logs at the center of gravity, so consider what max length you plan to cut.  How much room are you allowing to maneuver the arch in place? Good luck & keep us posted.
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Online thecfarm

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2012, 07:47:24 AM »
dboyt,the forum has a weight calculator too. Go up to Extra,kinda at the top, click onto to Tools and there you are. Also board feet too. The Knowledge base is a good one too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline losttheplot

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2012, 12:16:24 PM »
Have a look at the Logrite log arch  videos on YouTube, They might give you some ideas.

 
DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

Offline Jeff

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2012, 06:55:11 PM »
woodweb has calculators because we invented them. After we happened to find our unauthorized copyrighted material on their website, they came to an agreement with us to use them in exchange for giving us the credit. Which is all we asked. They used them until they could develop their own, then unceremoniously removed our originals.  So anyhow, I'd very much appreciate it if direction was always given to the Forestry Forum toolbox and the original (and best) internet volume calculators.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=toolbox

We also have several of the calcs available in our mobile view, for your smart phone, for when you are out and about and need some calculations.
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2012, 09:48:37 PM »
OK, I messed around with my "log arch" today.  I cut off the 6 hanger brackets under the tubes, the plate of steel on the front and the hitch (7/8" ball).  I also ground down all the welds to make it pretty - most no one will see but I will still care.  I also fiddled around with the winch.  It matches up with a Dayton 3,500lb winch.  Are these any good?  After tightening some connections and jogging it a bit, I got it working in and out.  However, on the payout, it does make quite a bit of noise, almost like a bad bearing.  I've never had a winch before so maybe it's normal.  Could it be the clutch/brake being forced on payout?  Does anyone know if I can purchase a new plastic cover for it?  If not, I'll make something.  I pulled off about 40' of cable.  The first half was buggered up so I'm going to get something new.  I want to have enough that I could use it as a drag as well.  I will also need to buy or make a new pulley for the top of the arch.  Any suggestions?  Bigger is better so as not to stress the cable, but how big?

Thanks,
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline GDinMaine

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2012, 10:43:39 PM »
When I made my logging arch I bought a belt pulley from a local place.  I bought a solid steel or some sort of cast pulley that accommodates 3/8" cable and has a 5/8" diameter hole in it.  It was originally intended to be an pulley for a "V" belt, but works quite well in my application.  Mine is about 3.5-4" diameter so it withstands the loads well.
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Offline Sixacresand

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2012, 11:26:45 PM »
 

 

I built this arch a few months ago and it has been very handy to move logs, slabs and lumber.  I can pull it with a tractor, pickup or lawnmower. 

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2014, 01:14:05 AM »
Well, its been a looooong time since I updated this topic!  I finally got around to finishing my log arch.  I extended the bed by 9- feet (stuck 1/2 of a 21' piece of 2" pipe 6" on each end of the cut frame) and welded on part of a 1-" pipe driveway gate (had the uprights already welded on).  I think this gave me about 14' of clear space from the front cross beam to the winch pulley.
 

 

I welded some short pieces of heavy chain and added some hooks (red) so I can add a sling of chain to rest the log down off the winch cable.  I also added the " x 2-" band on the inside as a truss set up.  Not great but should limit the amount it may possibly bend out if the weight is just too much for the " (or maybe 5/16") wall, 3" pipe arch.  I also added a battery tray below the winch.  For scale, my son is 4'-10".
 

 

My timber frame plans are nearing approval so I guess I better finish my mill next!  Then I can start moving some logs.  In the first picture on the left, you can see my ATV trailer for hauling stuff around the property.  On the right is a 6' bucket in the works for my SkyTrak.  Too many projects!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2014, 07:29:07 AM »
Pipe is a  strong cheap material to build arches from. Commercial plumbing houses sell HD weld on fittings 45,90,tees, and couplings. simply cut the pipe to the desired length and weld. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline chopperdr47

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2014, 08:22:37 AM »
Can't wait to see a picture of it with a log under it in front of your mill.
If ya ain't got what ya need, use what ya got

Offline WmFritz

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2014, 10:39:06 PM »
Great job on the arch!  8)
I see a future model in the Family too.  :D :D
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

Offline Rockn H

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2014, 08:57:29 AM »
Good job on the log arch.  With those "driveway gates" on the sides it reminds me of a top fuel car. ;D   If you're still planning on using it to move the mill, are you thinking about adding a small arch to the front so you can use the cable to lift both ends of the mill?

Offline jmouton

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Re: A log arch build...
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2014, 09:32:15 PM »
        i  just built a log arch for my tractor  ,60 horse ,  for my three point ,, i havent tried it out yet and no pictures yet ,  but its pretty kool i must say, waiting for the snow to melt and get a little drier out .


                                                                                                                                         jim
lt-40 wide ,fiat tractor,bobcat,international flatbed,10 ton trailer, stihl 075,041,029,066,and a 2015 f-350,and a oldwheel loader ,grapple system coming soon!!


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