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Author Topic: Insulation ?  (Read 4062 times)

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Offline J_T

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Insulation ?
« on: March 21, 2004, 09:28:58 AM »
I took apart a large frezer one time it was 16x20 or larger .It was used to make ice when they use to ice down rail cars .The walls were 8'' wide and filled with sawdust .Why couddn't you use it in a wall for a kiln ??? I know it would need to be dry and you could line the walls with a water proof liner. I know I am tighter than Dan G. ;D Also Boss says no more money sawdust I got .
Jim Holloway

Offline Buzz-sawyer

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2004, 10:19:13 AM »
JT
Why not add borax to the sawdust....bug -fungus proofing it;
and fire profing it to boot?
Old timers used it for years to keep ice over the summer.....
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Offline Kevin_H.

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2004, 10:50:51 AM »
hey buzz, is that your truck?

sorry cant help on the sawdust insulation :(
Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

Offline J_T

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2004, 12:24:02 PM »
Thanks Buzz didn't know about it were you get it ? Was fishing wonder what the R value is ?
Jim Holloway

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2004, 12:56:03 PM »
  I know a guy that made a sawdust filled wall-Kiln. Right now, it's looking pretty bad, sawdust spillin outta the holes that the TERMITES ate through. :o :o  He said it worked REAL well, till the bugs got to it. ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
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   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline J_T

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2004, 05:14:55 PM »
FD we gona pison them bugs Soon as Buzz tells me how.How long did it take before he had trouble? I do things on a shorter cycle as I have no warrenty on how long I may be here. : ;D
Jim Holloway

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2004, 05:26:47 PM »
  From lookin at all the other projects he has layin around, I'd say, about, 10 years??? :D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
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   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline J_T

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2004, 05:35:13 PM »
You talking about him or me ??? If him sounds like I got a brother I didn't know I had. ;D
Jim Holloway

Offline Buzz-sawyer

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2004, 06:39:44 PM »
 ;) :DHey Harold....
comming from you (about projects on the burner)
I believe Ill be done with my solar, high efficiency, biodiesel, steam powered egg beater 10 years before you clean your plate :D :D
you gotta head start onme too :P :o :o ;D :D
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Offline J_T

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2004, 06:53:15 PM »
Hay Buzz what about that Borax ??? Anyone know R value?Don't mean to be persentant the only Borax I ever heard of was washing powders. Help am I missing something  :-[
Jim Holloway

Offline etat

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2004, 07:08:32 PM »
J_T, them borax washing powders, and boric acid (like roach powder) is what it be.  Mix em up with ye ole sawdust and it'll make it fire resistant, mold resistant, and insect resistant.  Couple a recipes online fer making it up so's you can spray it on wood, one with antifreeze, and one with just plane ole water. Probably could just mix it in with sawdust.  Borates makes a good wood preservative, only thing is the borates leach out over time from the rain and such.  Closed up in them walls doubt it'd go anywhere.  

Another thing you could mix with it would be copper sulfate, like you get at the feed store, but I don't think you could mix it up in a spray.  

Sawdust, huh.  I wondered what made them danged old freezers so heavy!!!!!
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2004, 07:12:37 PM »
  Like ta keep projects lined up. Keeps me from getting bored ;D ;D  I'm anxiously waiting to have them cloned thingys legalized. I'm gonna order me a dozen ;) :)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline J_T

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2004, 07:16:52 PM »
Thanks CK I wrecked that old ice house at Obion Tn That is where I saw it . Had to been thare a long time . 8)
Jim Holloway

Offline Buzz-sawyer

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2004, 07:26:19 PM »
Jt
Yea what ck said....
I am not sure on r value...but I paid a fortune for tore up newspapers soaked in borax at the hardware store.... commonly called cellulose insulation....8 inches was bout r-27 or 30
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Offline J_T

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2004, 07:32:53 PM »
 Thanks Buzz recon we could toat sum up in the attic? I got  plenty :D :D
Jim Holloway

Offline Buzz-sawyer

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2004, 07:38:51 PM »
friend of mine cut ice from the lake and used a backhoe to dig a "ICE HOUSE" then covered with layers of sawdust....just to see if it would work....it did
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Offline mur

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2004, 08:56:40 PM »
Insulation value is R 2.44 per inch of sawdust.
Source: Pocket Ref by Thomas J. Glover.
Don't dream it, be it.

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2004, 04:03:20 AM »
  ALRIGHT, another member with stats ability. 8) 8)

 Welcome to the Forum, mur.

 Reckon, before long, there won't be a single problem this bunch can't solve.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline Norwiscutter

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2004, 03:23:53 PM »
so a feller could get a jag of sawdust, mix in some borax, and presto...bob's yer uncle...you got free attic insulation instead of paying for cellulose?   ??? There has got to be some major disadvantages else people would be doing this already wouldn't they? The weight issue doesn't seam to be a concern that couldn't be planned for.  I supose the major down side would be the dust wouldn't it? Got me thinking now.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Offline beenthere

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2004, 03:38:57 PM »
Sounds like a reasonable idea to use the sawdust in the walls for a kiln, as it would be cheap(er), and likely available (although not dry), but a bit heavier than cellulose (wouldn't put it in my house walls, and for sure not the ceiling). Borax (twenty mule team) probably could be mixed with the sawdust too, and at least the mold would be reduced. If used where no termites, then they should not be a problem.

Because it is cheap, probably having to replace the kiln walls in a few years wouldn't be a big deal either. Getting the sawdust dry and keeping it dry might be a trick, but not impossible, and maybe not that necessary.  If it rots, replace it with new.  

There is no question sawdust keeps ice from melting, well into the hot summer. But it remained pretty wet, and likely would be replaced each winter ice was brought in.

Interesting ideas.  But if it really worked for insulating house walls and ceilings, it would already be used - I would bet.
;D
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Offline J_T

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2004, 03:44:59 PM »
 I think one reason is the sound of it . You know hey Joe just had ten inches sawdust blowed in my attic  Another reason WORK . A circle saw makes bigger pieces you could screen it for size or put it over plastic.That celulose is dustey ever blow any on a hot day ? :) :)
Jim Holloway

Offline J_T

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2004, 03:49:14 PM »
 Sorry my brain is naping again  :D Thanks Mur and welcome I needed that . 8)
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Offline etat

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2004, 03:57:25 PM »
I'm a thinking it would be a magnet for soaking up moisture, even out of the air.

That said most of the new houses around here are being decked with sawdust as we speak!   They mix it with glue and call it OSB!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Offline Don_Lewis

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2004, 02:15:26 PM »
It will get pretty wet and wet sawdust doesn't have a very high R factor.

Offline J_T

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2004, 03:46:06 PM »
Why don't them ground up newspapers get wet ?
Jim Holloway

Offline Buzz-sawyer

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2004, 03:54:12 PM »
Paper has better insu power cause of the air trapped in all the little pockets,
so the fluffy-er the sawdust the better...in using it in walls an uniterupted vapor barrier would prevent moisture from the inside....could easily treat the dust with insecticide as well
Spread
Spray
Dry install
reason it isnt being used...newer better materials exist
It has been used in the past extensively...including homes
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Offline mur

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2004, 10:34:43 PM »
The main problem with sawdust is that it settles with time.  Compacts down at the bottom - not much insulating value there and then almost no insulating value in the void at the top of the wall.  The old sawmill cabins around here used it back in the Fifties and the walls were half empty of sawdust 20 years later.  It had settled.  
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Offline Don_Lewis

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2004, 04:22:06 AM »
Actually none of the open cell type insulations, sawdust, cellulose (ground newsprint), fiberglass, mineral wool, expanded polystrene etc. are good to use in a wood frame kiln. As long as the dewpoint falls in the insulation and it is open cell, it will get wet. You can slow it down with an effective vapor barrier but there are few perfect vapor barriers.

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Re: Insulation ?
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2004, 05:33:07 AM »
Sawdust

Pros:
Cheap
Plentiful

Cons:
Needs to be dried for best R value
Needs to be protected from moisture Bagged or Wraped
Fire hazards
Settling


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