Pro-loggers, your greatest expense ?

[chain]

Fuel?

Insurance, license, tax ?

Labor?

Repairs?

Depreciation?

[thenorthman]

For me Fuel and repairs, but I work alone.  License around here is just a business license, and insurance starts at around 1000 a year for residential work, I imagine it goes up pretty fast when a guy kills a house or two...

There's also Bonding, but that is a one time expense, 200k or so... Bonding is mostly for gob-a-mint work, so naturally I'm not bonded and never plan on being bonded.

[Woodboogah]

One man crew and fuel is a killer now.  Thinking of starting a bio-diesel operation.  Weighing pros and cons.  Anyone else have one going?

[lumberjake]

Workers comp.  .53 cents on the dollar

[Woodhauler]

In the trucking end of it, its all a big expense! Tires are 340 or so for caps, 4900$$ a year for insurance, 1450$$ a year for registration, 400$$$ a day for fuel , the list goes on and on!

[Autocar]

Fuel and insurance then repairs.

[240b]

fuel and stumpage.

[bill m]

Commercial liability and auto insurance. Fuel is not bad, only about $40 a week. Repairs about $150 a year ( mostly hyd. hoses)

[OH logger]

TRUCKING, and fuel for equipment and pickup and as  crazy as this sounds -saw gas can eat at you. i use high test but i think its worth it. maintanance and repairs and .....

[Mark K]

Insurance and fuel. Liability insurance isnt bad but workmens comp is a big expense. Im a one man operation, use $100 in fuel every other day. Spend a couple hundred at the saw shop a month.

[Ed_K]

Insurance is my big headache,then fuel and repairs.

[jd540b]

Parts & repairs by far.

[log cutter]

Down time.

[cutter88]

for me a i find i burn more fuel in my pick up driving to and from the bush everyday between my pickup and skidder i burn about 120 a day in fuel... by the time i make my pament and pay insurance and repairs... well u figure it out lol

[redprospector]

Transportation is my biggest expense (Trucking logs, moving equipment, etc.). Followed closely by equipment maintenance (I've heard that maintenance doesn't cost, it pay's. But I still have to write a check for it.). Then comes fuel.

Andy

[Ken]

Fuel by far.  Between the harvester, porter, skidder, pick-up and log truck it runs nearly $800/day when everything is working.   If we are not working then down-time is my greatest expense. 

lumberjake, 53 cents on the dollar for comp.  Wow!  That would make it prohibitive to have any employees on the books.  We did some inventory work in West Virginia a few years back and the loggers there were telling me they were paying over 40 cents and I thought that was ridiculous.  My comp rate now less than 4 cents/dollar.  It was nearly 10 a few years ago after a couple of bad accidents on the crew. 

[SwampDonkey]

WC here in NB is figured per $100 of payroll and I think I paid  2.17 cents on the dollar back in 2008 when I had workers. The rate kept falling and that was the 3rd year. It had to be paid up front in full based on an estimate you make. Most loggers I talk to say fuel is the top cost and if they hire trucking that is costly to. They charge more on private than on crown and the companies set the rates on crown (take it or leave it) on private the trucker does. The rates some of you guys have to pay is robbery. No wonder the job market is in the slump.

[craigc]

Here in the great(?) state of Illinois work comp pretty much starts at $60.00/$100.00 and goes to $100+/$100.00.  If anybody wants to buy a sawmill/logging operation in Illinois I know where one is for sale.  I also know a guy that would be leaving the state of Illinois as soon as the check clears. :D

[chain]

Transportation seems to be the most costly. I know every job is different, the run to the mills, the haul roads, etc.

But hiring the trucking must be considered especially if you have quality logs and do a good job of logging.

I would have to consider also the added time I would gain, not to mention less stress by hiring trucking. Will most mills work with you?

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Transport/Logistics that is if you have someone else doing it running your own rig but has its own set of issues Licence (Rego) $5500 22 wheeler to $12000 pa depending on the Axles combination gross rating  ;) Insurance about $3500 to $8000 pa Fuel is running at $6.27 a US Gal at the pump today .

Regards Chris

[lumberjake]

ken,
We've been in business for 30 years now and went from a 12 man crew down to 3 full time. Found out it's alot less stressful with less guys and you dont have to work near as hard. But everyones on comp and we've only had maybe 3 claims in those 30 yrs that werent serious. I think our rate is .37 in the mill, i cant imagine only paying .04 i would probably have some new equipment running.

[Woodboogah]

Wow, I cant imagine 6.27 for fuel.  I thought 3.85 was bad.  I know there is a lot of headaches that go on with running a business but would any of you give up working in the woods as long as you were still able to make a living?  I know I wouldnt, couldnt!

[IMOWOOD]

Fuel for me, then Comp.  We're at about +/-680gal a week right now and if the price goes up much more I think its going to get kinda scary.  Repairs are getting a little crazy right now and with repairs comes down time which I think is the real killer at the end of the day.  Lately it feels like we're spinning wrenches more than cutting wood, seams like a cycle we get into about once a year for what ever reason.     

[thenorthman]

I forgot about trucking, although I think fuel still trumps it.  Being Gypo I call the self loader in and they usually just take what they get off the top from the mill.

[CX3]

Stumpage
Labor
fuel
repairs
Saw stuff.
In that order but can change on a daily basis

[Dave VH]

wow, I don't know how you guys stay in business.  I'm a carpenter by trade. my liability and comp allows me and my guys to play in the woods a little as long as it's less than 10% of my income.  I would have to totally restructure to have the overhead that you all do, my hat is off to you all.

[smwwoody]

Fuel And TIRES!!!

[lumberjack48]

After paying stumpage and trucking don't leave much, workman's comp would put you out of business. We contracted help, gypo logger, independent self employed men, there was no way we could pay comp. This was 30 yrs ago.

When i had 2 skidders, feller buncher, 2 trucks, and 4 to 6 men in the woods there wasn't much sleep. You have to have one guy looking for stumpage and places to sell the wood, this is a steady job. 
All i found myself doing was cutting 4 times the stumpage and taking no more money home at the end. I found myself spinning in circles trying to keep everybody happy. No matter which way you turn somebody had there hand out for money.  When your trying to keep 5 pieces of equipment running, 6 saws running you have to be on the ball, theres not much piece of mind. I could make more take home money with the wife and me working together.
  But at that time the mills didn't want any mom an pop business. It was big business your out, out of business. Thats when they bid the stumpage up so that nobody could stay in business.

Stumpage was the worst for me.

[Corley5]

Everything involved with timber production costs $$$$.  I'm glad when I can pay myself at the end of the week

[Side loader]

Fuel & labor about $8/ton
Comp & commercial general liability about $1/ton (based on payroll)
Repairs $1/ton
Trucking $6/ton minimum or $.13/ mile
The rest is stumpage and profit (if there is any left).

Repairs are the wild card.  Logging is kinda like gambling.

[logger t]

fuel  and trucking

[redprospector]

  Logging is kinda like gambling.

Yep, if you get yourself addicted to it you can find yourself in deep trouble real easy.  :D

Andy

[thenorthman]

the difference is that you could get rich gambling,

[redprospector]

the difference is that you could get rich gambling,

You can go broke doing either though.
Wife asked me what we'd do if we won the lottery?
I thought about it a minute, and told her; We should have enough to get the equipment in pretty good shape, and do one more sale.  :D

Andy

[lynde37avery]

diesel fuel
chainsaw bar oil
saw chains
repairs

[Kemper]

Wages, but I like my help to make a goodbliving if possible.

[celliott]

Our class visited a large operation in the Adirondacks today. Whole tree chipping with some white pine sawlogs. Running 2 Tigercat feller bunchers, 3 Tigercat 630C Grapples skidders and a 1200HP chipper. We were told the skidders could burn 100 gallons of fuel a day working hard, and the chipper uses 200 gallons a day. His fuel budget for the year was 1.2 million dollars. He also told us fuel wasn't his biggest expense! Employees, workers comp. was his biggest expense.