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Author Topic: Building my dream Shop  (Read 20240 times)

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Offline Jay C. White Cloud

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2012, 05:48:59 PM »
Hi Geeg,

Well, the ones I really wanted to send you to, are in the mountains in Northern Syria, alas I don't recommend a visit at this time, and they may have been blown to smithereens by now.  They had been some of the oldest, (undocumented,) domestic timber frames in the world, at around 7000 years of age.  Many generation had lived in, added on to and built on the original "dry laid," stone foundations, of the preceding structure.  Now just to the North, In Turkey, that is another story, and a great place for you to get to before you leave that part of the world.  If you really are interested, I could perhaps put you in touch with one of my friend/students from there.  A trip into the mountains with Erikin, would reveal timber frames like you haven't seen before.  Good luck and keep make'n sawdust.
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Offline GeorgeK

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2012, 06:07:22 PM »
Awesome shop you are building. Nice ride. I am a recently laid off DC-8-73 Captain from DHL/ASTAR. Been back and fourth to your neck of the woods (sand) a few times.
George Kalbfleisch
Woodmizer LT40, twin blade edger, Bobcat A300, Kubota L48 and yes several logrites!

Offline Geeg

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2012, 04:16:52 AM »
The house looks great! When's the FF Housewarming Party? Invites are in the mail, right?  ;)

Well, the Party will probably be a week after our return in 2 years 204 days 23 hours. Having said that no invites are necessary and anyone here is more than welcome to come, just BYOB

Hi Geeg,

Well, the ones I really wanted to send you to, are in the mountains in Northern Syria, alas I don't recommend a visit at this time, and they may have been blown to smithereens by now.  They had been some of the oldest, (undocumented,) domestic timber frames in the world, at around 7000 years of age.  Many generation had lived in, added on to and built on the original "dry laid," stone foundations, of the preceding structure.  Now just to the North, In Turkey, that is another story, and a great place for you to get to before you leave that part of the world.  If you really are interested, I could perhaps put you in touch with one of my friend/students from there.  A trip into the mountains with Erikin, would reveal timber frames like you haven't seen before.  Good luck and keep make'n sawdust.

Jay, wow 7000 years of age, man I hope mine last that long.  Agree about Syria we use to layover in Damascus, now its just in and out.  Do you have any pictures of these TF? would really like to see them.

Awesome shop you are building. Nice ride. I am a recently laid off DC-8-73 Captain from DHL/ASTAR. Been back and fourth to your neck of the woods (sand) a few times.

Hi George, sorry to hear about your situation. As you know this business can be quite challenging at times, it sure isn't what it use to be and the good old days are long gone. Well at least you have your LT40, congrats on that. I actually envy you!, you have a sawmill and you flew a classic! Whats your plan, any chance of getting recalled?

Regards,
Geeg
Airbus 380 Captain, living in the Middle East, counting down the days till retirement. Timberking 2200,  Kioti RX6010PC,  Nyle Kiln KD250, Polaris WV850

Offline Jay C. White Cloud

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2012, 10:28:38 AM »
Hi Geeg,

Pictures are hard, time wise and I would make the effort if I had any of quality.  I'm horrible for taking pictures, (in that I don't as much as I should.)  Erkin is going back in a few months, but I'm not sure if he will get into the mountains this trip, (his 90+) father is going to take a lot of his time.

Now, what I can do is this.  If you want to see just many different random pictures of "Turkish Timber Architecture," that I can accommodated.  Do the following, go to Google Images, and use the following (cut and paste) in the "search" box:

 Kemaliye evleri

"Hımış" yapım tekniğindeki

That should get you going.  I almost forgot, "Kemaliye" is a style of timber architecture, and "Himis" is a technique.  I have never been able to get a good direct translation of the word, other that "yes, yes, timber frame."  Erikn lives here in the state's (he speaks and reads Uzbek, German, English, Turkish and a spattering of Middle Eastern languages), and we both have the same career paths.  We both timber frame in the same styles, and we both "Mountain Guide" and teach "Wilderness Ed.-Indigenous Life Skills," as it is called in the experiential education field.  Let us know what you think.

Regards,

Jay 



"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Offline Geeg

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2012, 07:49:55 AM »
Thanks Jay, Will see if I can google it.

Regards,
Geeg
Airbus 380 Captain, living in the Middle East, counting down the days till retirement. Timberking 2200,  Kioti RX6010PC,  Nyle Kiln KD250, Polaris WV850

Offline ekutanoglu

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2012, 02:05:34 PM »
Hi Jay&Geeg,
I wanted to contribute your discussion from Turkey with some photos about timber frames in Turkey. With my limited knowledge on the topic, I can say that we have two types of timber frames here.
First timber frames with antı technique. antı timber frame is similar to or combination of your timber frame and plank and log buildings which uses mortise and tenon with no nail. Its difficult to see examples of antı and is a technique older than Hımış Jay mentioned.

Hımış timber frames use shorter timbers with long nails-barn spikes and can be seen in everywhere  in Turkey (including Kemaliye which is a county in the east Anatolia)and throughout the Europe. This is an infill system; wall cavity is filled with cob, brick, plaster etc and whitewashed.

I created albums for both.

Unfortunately,  Turkey is a country surrounded with concrete buildings now and  antı and Hımış timber frames were left for dead although we have some legislations to protect them . And the most important point is there is no any resource, workshop  to learn/remember  these techniques, at least I could find any in Turkey.  Fortunately, we have Sobon, Benson and Shappel . 
Regards

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2012, 03:53:39 PM »
ekutanoglu:

Welcome, can you post a link to your gallery here on the forestry forum where you have your pictures?

Thanks.

Jim Rogers
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Offline beenthere

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2012, 04:33:33 PM »
Maybe post pics in your own gallery here on the forum. ;)
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Jay C. White Cloud

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2012, 09:46:31 PM »
Welcome Ekutanoglu,

It is an honor and exciting 8) to share the forum with you.  I would love if you would start a New post topic called: "Turkish Timber Framing," or I could and you could join in.  I'm confident that folks here would love to see timber frames from that region and discuss them.

I, for one, would love to here more about you and your interest in timber framing.  You mention not finding any, have you looked in the mountain regions. There are some "elders," up in the mountains that still can cut frames in both "Hımış" and ""antı" style.  My friend Erikin and you should try to make contact.  I would love to share a conversation with both of you.  Erikin would love to start a historical interpretive program in Turkish Indigenous folk architecture and I know, when he comes to visit his father there, he goes to the mountains to look for programming locations.

Please give us a link to your photos or set up an album here at the forestry forum and again karşılama!

Regards,

Jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Offline ekutanoglu

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2012, 01:09:12 PM »
Many thanks Jay for karşılama  :),

I can start a new topic on Turkish Timber Frame if you guys interested but let me start with a couple of pictures for now. Actually I wanted to add them to this post but I could not achieve. I copied the link of my gallery I created in the forum. I hope it works.

http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/index.php?cat=29612

Actually I have a 8-5 job and my interest and knowledge on timber framing is only in theory, limited with reading books, forums (for now). My interest has started after reading a blog about building timber frame house, as I remember it was "massiehouse" a member of FF as well, then discovered this forum and stuck on.
I would be happy contacting with you and your friends Erkin as we have common interest.

and Jim,

I forgot to say in my previous e mail; Fortunately we have forestry forum and Jim Rogers.
Many thanks for your effort to share your knowledge on TF.
Best regards

Offline Jay C. White Cloud

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2012, 10:07:16 PM »
I'm waiting for a book that Erikin has on traditional architecture of Turkey.  I would love to know any books you know of on the craft.  There doesn't seem to be any on the technical aspects of the different forms.  I have hinted to Erikin about writing one.  As our conversation develops, or you see something of interest, we could start a new post.

Regards,

Jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2012, 10:14:36 PM »
I looked in your gallery earlier. Nice looking buildings. maybe this will help.

Go to your gallery, Click onto your album,than click onto whatever picture you want, it will get bigger, then scroll down a little to find, Insert Image In post, click onto that, say yes and that is it. I like to hit the enter key at least once or twice to move the picture down away from a post. The enter key really helps to leave some white space if posting more than one picture. Somewheres I think it says to add 10,000 to your user number or something like that to make a click-able icon to your gallery under your user name. use the preview button to see how it looks.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline ekutanoglu

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2012, 12:56:02 PM »

Many thanks Thecfarm, I noted this.
By the way, Geeg's shop, I love it and that is also my dream. I think it's time to go back the "dream shop" after opening a paragraph for TFs in a different country.
Regards

Offline Geeg

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2012, 02:20:24 AM »
Springtime came and we found 2" of water in the basement during the thaw, I had mentioned this on one of my other post about building a house on a current foundation. Before the main sub floor was installed the front wall was found bowed so they tore it down and replaced the block., new weeping tile was installed and attached to the old clay tile and back filled. Note to self, don't ever re build on an existing foundation.

We needed to install a new septic system since the old one was found to far gone and had not been taken care of over the years, this was a big project that we had not taken into account and was quite costly. Since the equipment was there we decided to dig up the foundation and replace all the weeping tile since it had obviously failed. This project was also quite time consuming and came at another unexpected expense (the joys of building a house, I don't like surprises). Once the foundation was dug up, we noticed right away that the block wall's had cracks and the weeping tile in places was completely blocked with clay, this happened due to the fact that when the foundation was originally installed, they did not back fill with stone and sand. The foundation wall cracks were parged after removing the tar and a rubber spray on coat was applied to make the foundation wall water tight. New weeping tile was installed and gravel and sand was was used to back fill. This was a huge job due to the clay and the rain that we had had while trying to complete this job.


Front wall has a bow in it, was removed and replaced with new block, footing was also
extended about a 12"

Wall being removed, fast job of it with that equipment.

New block installed and ready for taring.

Diging for the septic system, the original one was located on the other side of the house.

This company made fast work of installing the septic system, was still expensive though

Ready to lay the tile bed.

1500 gallon tank installed.

Sewage tubes running through the foundation into the house.

Old cay weeping tile, some were completely blocked with clay

Foundation dug up, septic system is now installed.

Notice the water at the footings, that stuff was like glue to walk in. It was a nightmare that
I didn't think was going to end.

Used some scrap wood to lay down so that we could walk on it. Helped a little.

Our temporary gang plank to get into the house, two weeks of using this.

Walls cleaned and re parged. We ended up having to pump water out since there was
nowhere to go.

The sealer spray was added, this stuff stretches 1800% and then returns to its normal state.

Membrane being applied with a spray gun.

Dimpled delta wrap being applied.

Weeping tile installed, gravel layed down and the insulation installed then the downspout
big O installed.



Sono tubes installed for the sun-room and wrap around deck.



Temporary access installed and graded.

Rough grading completed, glad that it's almost over!

Crushed rock added to driveway and driveway re-routed to a new access.

All the sono tubes installed and ready for pouring.
Airbus 380 Captain, living in the Middle East, counting down the days till retirement. Timberking 2200,  Kioti RX6010PC,  Nyle Kiln KD250, Polaris WV850

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2012, 08:45:05 AM »
I'm not sure of your timing of foundation back filling, but I thought you didn't ever back fill until the first floor deck was installed to prevent the back filling process from bowing the walls?

And it looks like you've done just about everything you could do to prevent water from getting into your basement through the walls now. I hope it works for you.

Thanks for all the pictures.

Jim Rogers
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2012, 09:03:02 AM »
Where did all that water come from?? Looks like you have a few springs. But kinda looks like your house sits up on a sight incline. Have alot of clay? I'm on a small hill,nothing drains down to me,it's all down hill from here.  ;D
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Offline samandothers

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2012, 09:58:15 AM »
Geeg,
Thank you for taking the time to post this information and pictures.  It is really informative.  How is the interior framing going or has that been on hold for the exterior septic and water issue? 
Looks like you should have a dry basement in the future.

Offline Geeg

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2012, 12:13:39 AM »
Hi Jim, Because of the load of the TF, the engineer requested that (if memory serves me correct) every 4 feet there was rebar installed vertically in the block and it was filled to the top with cement to reinforce the walls. The contractor figured that it was ok to carefully back fill the one wall with sand but I do see your point though, guess we got lucky?

Hi thecfarm, we have an artisan well about 50-75 behind the house, it comes out of the ground and in the winter, it never freezes and is always wet. There is all clay around the house, I think this was a big problem with the basement flooding due to the fact that there was no where for the water to drain since the weeping tile was plugged in spots and the clay was back filled  up to the foundation wall instead of using gravel at the base and sand above to get the water to drain down to the new weeping tile. As of today, there is no water in the basement, and it is dry as a bone. Hopefully this will last for my lifetime!

Hi samandothers, Yes, we unfortunately had to put the interior framing on hold due to these issues but it wasnt long before we got to the framing. Will dig these pics out and post them.
Airbus 380 Captain, living in the Middle East, counting down the days till retirement. Timberking 2200,  Kioti RX6010PC,  Nyle Kiln KD250, Polaris WV850

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2012, 09:12:32 AM »
Sand-gravel around a foundation will really help. And the clay drains will really help too. Mine was back filled with sand. But as I said everything drains away from me. Sounds like you have water around your place.
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Offline frwinks

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Re: Building my dream Shop
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2012, 10:57:20 AM »
Looks great Geeg.   We built ours on existing foundation too and the last set of pics looks waaay too familiar :D


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