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Author Topic: Thickness for Table Top ??  (Read 25782 times)

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Offline Dodgy Loner

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2013, 09:11:00 AM »
This would be the traditional method, David. There is a short tongue that rides along the length of the end, with a few longer tenons along its length. It is pegged through elongated holes in the tenons, which allow the top to expand and contract without cracking. You can use glue as well, but if you do, only put it along a few inches of length, either in the front of the panel or the middle, depending on whether you want the contraction to occur only at the back of the panel or equally on the front and back.

 
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Offline Planman1954

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2013, 09:35:46 AM »
Magic...I'm sure you have already know that you could use all 1" thick boards for the top, and then glue another 1" thick board a few inches wide around the bottom perimeter on a 45d corner joint to achieve a thicker appearance. Or, use a thicker breadboard end board and add the two on the sides. Just a couple of thoughts...(I try to do things the easy way :D)
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Offline Dodgy Loner

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2013, 11:18:24 AM »
Magic...I'm sure you have already know that you could use all 1" thick boards for the top, and then glue another 1" thick board a few inches wide around the bottom perimeter on a 45d corner joint to achieve a thicker appearance.

This sounds like a recipe for wood movement disaster :P
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Offline Tree Feller

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2013, 12:20:46 PM »
This sounds like a recipe for wood movement disaster :P

Yep. A panel as wide as a table top will push the miters apart with seasonal expansion.

It's the same with a breadboard end. Biscuits and glue don't allow for the seasonal movement of the top. Dodgy's method is the correct way to attach a breadboard. When the groove and tenons are milled, fit the breadboard, clamp it in place and drill the holes for the dowels. Now remove the breadboard and elongate those holes, angling the elongation slightly towards the tabletop. Re-install the breadboard and pin it with short dowels, applying glue to the last 1/4" or so. I also glue the center 8 inches or so and let the movement occur on both ends of the breadboard.

You could also drill the holes through the breadboard,  fit the breadboard and mark for the holes in the tenons. Drill the tenon elongated holes offset towards the tabletop about 1/32". Now when you pin them with the dowels (tapered on the bottom) it will add additional force holding the breadboard against the panel. That's known as draw-boring.
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Offline Axe Handle Hound

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2013, 02:56:16 PM »
This sounds like a recipe for wood movement disaster :P

Yep. A panel as wide as a table top will push the miters apart with seasonal expansion.

It's the same with a breadboard end. Biscuits and glue don't allow for the seasonal movement of the top. Dodgy's method is the correct way to attach a breadboard. When the groove and tenons are milled, fit the breadboard, clamp it in place and drill the holes for the dowels. Now remove the breadboard and elongate those holes, angling the elongation slightly towards the tabletop. Re-install the breadboard and pin it with short dowels, applying glue to the last 1/4" or so. I also glue the center 8 inches or so and let the movement occur on both ends of the breadboard.

You could also drill the holes through the breadboard,  fit the breadboard and mark for the holes in the tenons. Drill the tenon elongated holes offset towards the tabletop about 1/32". Now when you pin them with the dowels (tapered on the bottom) it will add additional force holding the breadboard against the panel. That's known as draw-boring.

I consistently find myself nodding in agreement with everything you and Dodgy write on all these woodworking threads. 

Offline Woodey

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2013, 10:06:47 AM »

MM,
Lots of good information has been shared.

Let us know how your table turns out! :)
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Offline Planman1954

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2013, 10:33:17 AM »
If a 1" perimeter board is glued and screwed along the grain of the 2 sides the length of the table, it will remain stable. The 45d joint is under the corners, if the wood is properly dry before construction with a biscuit in the 45, I don't believe it will move. The end pieces should be 2" thick breadboards. That is where movement occurs. There would NOT be a problem. Maybe I'm not expressing my thought clearly.

Guys..I've built projects for 40 years. They are all still intact.
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Online beenthere

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2013, 11:19:22 AM »
planman
I trust you know what you are doing. I just am not following what it is, and lose you when you add the 45 joint. How about a pic?
Seems adding thickness like WDH so end grain is seen (no breadboard) would be the safest way to go.
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Offline Planman1954

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2013, 12:02:02 PM »
Here's a quick drawing...not perfect...but gives you the idea.

 
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Offline Mooseherder

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2013, 12:06:06 PM »
Thanks for that drawing Planman. :)
It really helps aspiring woodworkers like myself with some direction.
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Online beenthere

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2013, 12:33:41 PM »
Got it Planman.  Thanks
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Offline Axe Handle Hound

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2013, 07:34:49 PM »
Planman- that's a really interesting way to add a false edge to a table top.  I don't think I've ever seen that approach used before.  If you say that has worked for you before I'll believe you.  I've certainly seen joints before that technically shouldn't work, but ultimately do.  Do you have any photos of a project you've built using this joint?  I'd really be interested in seeing how it looks beyond just the schematic. 

Offline Tree Feller

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2013, 08:51:40 PM »
Same here, Planman. If that design works for you, great.

Just a note. We have a Walnut blanket chest in our bedroom and the lid has breadboard ends. The Walnut was dried to 7% MC in my solar kiln and I built the blanket chest almost immediately after moving the lumber to my shop.

I noticed this morning that the breadboards were extending past the top panel by about 3/32" on both sides. I glued the center 1/3 of the breadboard to the 24" wide top and the ends are secured with draw-bored pegs in elongated holes.

I don't know what the EMC inside my home is but it's evidently less than 7% MC in winter because that top panel shrunk. I expect the breadboards will be back flush with the panel by June or so when the panel expands.

The point is that wood moves with changes in RH. I've had some heartbreaks because I didn't account for that movement in my design. Once burned, twice shy.   ;)
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Offline Bogue Chitto

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2013, 09:06:00 PM »
MM this one is 2 inch top with 4x4 legs.  Son built it last year. 

 

Offline Magicman

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2013, 09:51:43 PM »
Thanks to all for the information and as usual, I keep my wagon loaded, and my wagon ain't even red.  Here I am working away every minute of my "spare" time on the Cabin Addition, and I ask about a table.

Yup, when the Addition is completed, "She" said that I would build a dining table which will occupy the existing living room.  The table that we saw in Birch Run, Mi. that I pictured in the OP kinda caught our eye, but I am quite sure that I will leave the board ends because I kinda like that look.  I just may do that WDH trick. 
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Offline WDH

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Re: Thickness for Table Top ??
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2013, 09:58:26 PM »
MM,

It works pretty slick.
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