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Author Topic: Kiln floor?  (Read 4317 times)

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Offline WoodChucker

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Kiln floor?
« on: April 09, 2004, 10:23:52 AM »
Hi all, which is better for a dehumidifier type kiln floor, cement or wood? Getting ready to start on mine, just a small one, only about 1500bf. But hey, the little people have to start somewhere.  ;D  Thanks!

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Offline Don_Lewis

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2004, 07:04:30 AM »
The most common is concrete with a full layer of blue (or pink) extruded (NOT expanded) polystrene under it. Plus foam around the edge. You can do it out of wood but is a little trickier to get right. There needs to be a thermal break between the stringers and the floor decking.

Offline WoodChucker

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2004, 07:39:09 AM »
Hi Don, how do you tell the difference between ( extruded & expanded ) polystyrene? Is the pink stuff that Home Depot carries what I'd want? And if I go with concrete will I need a vapor barrier between the foam and the cement? Thanks!

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Offline pasbuild

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2004, 09:39:48 AM »
You will want to get the formula 250 extruded styro as it is rated for the weight of the concrete  ;)
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

Offline WoodChucker

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2004, 09:59:47 AM »
Quote
You will want to get the formula 250 extruded styro as it is rated for the weight of the concrete  ;)


Thanks pasbuild, do you know if the stuff that Home Depot carries (pink) is the extruded? Or how I'd tell the difference? The people that work there never seem to know much about anything.  ;D  And I don't have a clue either. Thanks!

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Offline Don_Lewis

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2004, 05:46:34 AM »
Pink is extruded. Expanded is white bead board and is not acceptable to use under concrete. Dow makes the blue stuff and Owens corning makes the pink and both are good. I think JM makes it too and there may be others. Just stay away from white.

Offline Ga_Boy

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2004, 06:07:02 AM »
Don,

I am pretty much in the same position you are in terms of what and how to build a kiln.  To share the wealth of information here is a list of the items that I have put together to consider for construction.

1. Spray foam insulation for interior walls.
2. Footers to support a kiln cart.
3. Epoxy seal the floor.
4. Cable bracing for kiln cart loading/unloading.
5. Lighting - For this I do not have a clue.  
6. Pre wire with low voltage cable for future multi-kiln controller.

I hope this helps. :P



Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Offline WoodChucker

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2004, 08:30:59 AM »
Thanks Don, that was easy, I thought for sure I wouldn't understand the technical explanation.  ;D

Mark, I assume you were talking to me?  Because I think Don already knows more about this stuff then I ever will. lol.

Thanks for the info, what do you mean by cable bracing for the kiln cart? Is that just some sort of tie-down while loading it? And do you have a link or explanation about the footers for the kiln cart? Or is it just double bracing or something?

As you can see, I'm pretty stupid about this stuff, last year (BBTom) gave me a pretty good education on kiln building, but because of some health issue's I had to put off building it till now and I think I forgot most of what I learned then.  ;D

Anyway, thanks for input guys!

R.T.  
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Offline Ga_Boy

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2004, 09:26:24 AM »
Woodchucker,

Your are correct, in my last post I was addressing the information to you.

Sorry about that Don. ::)

Regarding the bracing for the cart.  I was referring to reinforcing the end wall to mount a pulley for a cable.  The intent is to use a cable and pulley to load the kiln after the material is stickered on the cart.  Once loaded I  would use my tractor to pull the cart into the kiln then after drying, I could pull the cart out using  the tractor.   Guess I'm kinda  lazy.  ;D

The footers for the cart assume you use a concrete floor.  With this assumption, given the weight of 4 mbf of material you would want to pour footers where the cart-wheels roll.  This is to support the weight of the cart and material, other wise you run the chance of cracking your floor.  I am leaning towards using 6X6 wire and rebarb in my floor.

Does this make any sense?


Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2004, 09:30:00 AM »
Woodchucker
Expanded styro comes in a 150 & 250 formula (rating) the 150 is designed for above grade none structural use the 250 is more dense and is used below grade and is resistant to compression. The rating should be printed right on each sheet, If not have the sales person pull the data sheet to find the lb PSI rating.
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

Offline WoodChucker

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2004, 09:36:47 AM »
Good to know, thanks and I'll make sure to check that out.

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Offline WoodChucker

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2004, 09:41:12 AM »
Mark, almost missed your post, glad I went back. Thanks for all the info and YES, it makes a lot of sense. Sure appreciate the help!

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Offline Den Socling

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2004, 10:14:06 AM »
When it comes to kiln carts, my personel preference is mutiple wheels. If you use ony four, 1/4 of the the weight is on each wheel and that can be a lot of psi at the point the wheel touches the track/floor. I like to use 4" v-groove on about 3' centers. You end up with a cart that resembles the trucks used in conventional track kilns. By doing so, your cart is very low and doesn't take much space in the chamber. Also, there's very little wear and tear. And finally, if one wheel runs into a splinter, it doesn't stop you cold.  ;D

Offline WoodChucker

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2004, 11:53:22 AM »
Thanks Den, appreciate the info. Where do you buy your cart wheels at? And are you talking about 4" wide or 4" diameter on the wheels? BTW, great web site you have!

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Offline Den Socling

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2004, 12:06:03 PM »
I use 4" diameter but they are a little hard to work with. You can get 5", 6" or whatever you want. You can buy them from general suppliers like McMaster/Carr or Grainger or specialized distributors like Castor Connection.

When I run 4" wheels on 3/4" SS angle, there is only 1.75" of wasted space under the cart.

I'll pass the mention of the website to Little Kelley.  :)

Offline Ga_Boy

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2004, 12:56:02 PM »
Den,

When you mentioned 3/4" SS, are you referring to Stainless Steel?  If so, is the stainless an off the shelf item from your local steel supplier?  

I like the idea a SS, as it should hold up very well in a kiln environment.  Although if you are using Stainless then you already knew that as this and this is why you are using stainless. ::)   I can be a master of the obvious at times. ;D

One more question.  Are the wheels from McMaster and the other suppliers cheaper than the ones sold by Nyle?



Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Offline Den Socling

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2004, 01:16:50 PM »
 :D yep. That's 3/4" x 3/4" x 1/8" stainless steel angle that is available off the shelf.

I wouldn't know about Nyle's prices but I can say that wheels from different sources can be very similar. Just look for the weight rating.

Offline WoodChucker

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2004, 02:05:25 PM »
Thanks again Den, I'll check out those web sites.

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

Offline smwwoody

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2004, 09:23:28 PM »
The better wheels are grease-able.  keeps things rolling real smooth.  

Woody
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Offline Don_Lewis

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2004, 05:28:34 AM »
Oops...maybe I posted this someplace else. Nyle wheels are 3" wide by 6" diameter and are rated at 2500 lbs. The have ball bearings and come with a short hollow shaft (axle). They have a flat surface as well as a groove. Stacking and shipping wheels is like selling barbells and if someone has a better source, it is a business Nyle would not regret losing.

Offline Den Socling

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Re: Kiln floor?
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2004, 05:30:46 AM »
I'll mention, also, that you can buy cold ground stainless steel round for axles. All you have to do is cut it to length, slide it through the wheel's bearings and your cart's frame and then secure the assembly with collars.


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