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how much $ for a load of logs?

Started by bigred1951, March 14, 2013, 01:50:53 AM

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SwampDonkey

Your fuel and thus heating might be cheaper but your houses, electricty and your food aren't any cheaper. And your cooling bills in summer are way higher. Most don't need air conditioning in the north, we just open windows up in the evening.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

lumberjack48

The last wood we put on the landing for the Co. in 96, we got--
$10. a cd. for TL Aspen, Jack, Norway Pine
$16. a cd. for 8' Aspen pulp
$20. a cd. for TL  Balsam
$25. a cd. for 8' Spruce an Balsam pulp
$26. a cd.  for 8' saw bolts, everything
$44. a k   for logs, everything

The  wife and me could average 3 to $600. a day, this is cutting an skidding, with our saws and skidder. No running around trying to sell it or looking for stumpage, just pull wood.  When running two skidders, it ran from $400. to $1000. a day, it all depended on the timber. The Co i worked for didn't pay in the woods, i had a 20k bumper. All the other Co's payed 75% every Fri. night in the woods, this is really nice. The woods boss would estimate it and write you a check, every Fri. at 3 pm.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

SwampDonkey

I had a lot of contact with crew bosses in that era working at a marketing board, guys that hired the logger with a skidder. I don't recall anyone paying less than $40 a cord, some as much as $55 a cord. The crew boss basically chased for the next patch of wood to cut. However, up until about that time the crew boss was often a quota holder, for so much volume a year, and he had priority market access to sell wood off woodlots. These were on small private land. I don't know about on public land, I suspect less per cord because by then it was all mechanical harvesting. There is no longer a board regulated quota. They tried for awhile to give priority to guys doing the right thing. But what would happen is the next guy would come behind and cut the rest. Don't blame the logger, the blame is on the owner if there is any. See they got a harvest bonus of an extra $10 paid by the pulp mill. It didn't work. This mill bonus was on hardwood and aspen volume, taken from hardwood forest.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

lumberjack48

I skidded wood for the Co. for 16 yrs, 1980 to 1996, they payed the same.

I'm going to call in the morning and see what their paying now, 17 yrs later. What would be your guise ?
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

SwampDonkey

The price of wood would have a large bearing as will fuel. Remember in 2005 oil really spiked and except 2008 for a spell of decline it is still around 2005 levels. I expect it has risen some, but pulp prices are not much different as then. Everyone else wants a pay increase but the guy on the saw, skidder or tractor always takes the hit. I bet the trucking is a lot more. Possibly your up between $40-$50 by now.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Okrafarmer

Quote from: SwampDonkey on April 01, 2013, 08:28:01 AM
Your fuel and thus heating might be cheaper but your houses, electricty and your food aren't any cheaper. And your cooling bills in summer are way higher. Most don't need air conditioning in the north, we just open windows up in the evening.

What are you basing it on, when you say our houses, electricity, and food are not cheaper? They're pretty cheap here. Housing, I think, is similar here to in Maine, but the taxes are a good bit lower (property tax). As for air conditioning, that is only a recent phenomenon. I do use it because I am still physically a northern boy descended from Scotts and English and 10 or more generations of New Englanders, selectively bred for cold resistance, not heat resistance.  >:(  Raw land is cheaper in Maine. Electricity is jumping up, but isn't it jumping up for everyone? Maybe not in Canada, I don't know.

Most of the loggers I see round about still have shiny new pickup trucks. I don't know how they do it, but they do. Their forestry equipment, on the other hand, is around 20 years old, or older. They keep it going. . . . Less environmental pressure here, fewer regulations. Most of the loggers seem to be family businesses, father and son(s) and/or brother(s) and/or nephew(s). Few if any non-relations working for them.

Unlike in Maine, there is no off-season for logging. It is a year-round deal here, with no typical frost or mud-season, and less swampy land. Much less seasonal fluctuation in pricing, demand, and supply. What fluctuation there is seems to be either erratic (unusually wet weather, for instance), fiscal (end of tax year, beginning of tax year issues), cultural (less likely to do much work around the holidays, for instance), or influenced by outside forces, such as the timber market at large.

Around here it seems to be all about filling semi-trucks with logs as fast as possible. But strangely some gippo loggers carry on as well. Not uncommon to see a single axle bunk truck heading into the log yard. I guess the average age of a logging truck, like the forestry equipment, is around 20 years.  I also have not heard of many logging or log truck accidents in my time here.

Just my observations.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

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SwampDonkey

About the biggest discrepancy I would say is healthcare and new vehicle/equipment costs. New houses with 2200 sq feet can be had for $180,000. To the west you can triple that figure. Most woodlot loggers here are running old equipment to. Size of vehicle to haul a load depends on distance to the mill. Dad always hauled with a tandem Chevy: potatoes, grain and wood. If I live 2 miles from the mill I might haul mine in with horse and wagon or on the side rails of the pickup, just roll them off with a quick jerk ahead. ;D Land tax on woodlots is next to nothing, rural tax on house lots is pretty low, mostly $600 or so. Power here is all water driven, I live near 5 hydro dams. Cost is less than $100/month. We have far less environmental pressure here, low population density.  About the only thing regulated here is water courses. I think we need to stay out of the brooks with skidders don't we? ;)
I think most everyone has a mud season from what I've read on the forum, unless your in New Mexico or Arizona. Price fluctuations, your at the mill's mercy on that no matter where you live. They are the buyers, you have to play with their rules. ;)

I think you'll find whatever selective breeding that went on was in the castles. The rest of us made do. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

lumberjack48

I called the mill, i got hold of the oldest boy who owns it, hes 77. I was on the ph for an hour talking to him, hes going to call me back, we have a lot of old times to talk about.

Their paying $22. for TL Aspen, cut an skid
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

SwampDonkey

That's quite something if it's true. They wouldn't get any wood for that here. Not if it's skidder wood.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

lumberjack48

SwampDonkey what do you mean is it TRUE ???
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

chevytaHOE5674

Quote from: lumberjack48 on April 02, 2013, 10:44:29 AMTheir paying $22. for TL Aspen, cut an skid

So in 1996 you got 16/cd now 17 years later they are only paying 22/cd...?

In that 17 years fuel price has more than doubled, tire prices have probably tripled, oil prices have tripled, insurance rates have probably doubled, etc etc etc.... Right there you can see why there are fewer and fewer guys trying to make a living in the woods.

MEloggah

I wouldn't even bump the starter over for those peanuts!!!!

lumberjack48

No, look a little closer, $10. for TL Aspen in 96, its 12. more now. I could make 3500. week now in good wood at 22 a cd.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

chevytaHOE5674

In 1996 I wasn't in the logging business but my farm records go back that far.

1996
Fuel price           1.29
5 gallons of oil    12.99
Rear tractor tire  399.99

2013
Fuel Price           4.00
5 gallons of oil    44.99
Rear tractor tire   999.99

That's not taking into account like cost of equipment, cost of hard parts, cost of insurance, etc.

Without knowing all of those costs I don't understand how you can figure out your weekly pay.....



lumberjack48

You know by looking at the figures that it was gross pay.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

MEloggah

lj48, how many cd did you send on a truck? one a tri-axle these boys who haul my wood run around 9-10cd a load and 13ish on a tractor trailer. at those rates that would be only a little over a couple hundred bucks a TA load. not even worth it! yea I send my pine pulp for about those prices but its attatched to the logs so it has to go somewhere. usually buys the fuel for the week +/-. at those rates to make 3500 a week that would be over 17 loads. no offense but a man with a chain saw aint doing it and especially aint doing it and doping a nice looking job to boot and especially if the wood being yarded is say a modest couple hundred yard skid! heck, even right next to the landing I don't think it can be done.

lumberjack48

I could pull 20 cds a day alone, about a 100 trees. With the wife on the skidder  3 loads of nice tree length Aspen is no big day, the best day we pulled 52 cds.
I know what i could pull a day, i did it for 30 yrs, but sounds the same, nobody could believe the wood that we put out until they seen it :o

Better yet do you want to call the mill, i will pm you the number 8)
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

SwampDonkey

Your 20 cords with 100 trees would have to average around 12" diameter trees, which isn't all that big but nothing to sneeze at for northern timber. It is certainly doable considering it's tree length. 52 cords in one day, seems a bit of a stretch with one skidder though. I can't recall anyone pulling much more than 24 cords of treelength aspen a day along with a partner and back then no one would do it for $240 however, not an owner operator. Your higher numbers are not sustainable output either. The human body can only take so much.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

lumberjack48

When i fell for two skidders we pulled 50 to 60 cds a day, the best day was 76 cds. I had a man on the landing unhooking and toping, its nothing to tip 400 trees a day in good Aspen. The 52 cds is no stretch, the truck hauled it in as we pulled it, we were 5 miles from the mill, we pulled 4 loads, i don't know why i'm explaining myself to you, i know what we did. The wife says she'll show you how to do it, she told me to just get off here, she got sick of hearing this when she was pulling wood after i got hurt.

When i piece cut, i could cut and pile 10 cds of Aspen a day, alone. I heard the same thing, they said it can't be done, well i could do it.

I'm out of my league here, i was pulling this amount of wood back in 68.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

SwampDonkey

If you choose to leave the forum lumberjack, that will be your decision. I've become a little tired of how much more, better, faster one man can be at skidding wood than others that also do it for a living. I've seen how hard men work in a day in the woods all week long. It's not a job for slackers, that's for sure. However, I have no reason not to believe you was a top producer in your day. But over time I think the figures that one recalls get a little fuzzy. Even I catch myself, or someone else does on here with numbers that don't seem right. Then I get to think about it a little harder. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

beenthere

QuoteIf you choose to leave the forum lumberjack, that will be your decision. I've become a little tired of how much more, better, faster one man can be at skidding wood than others that also do it for a living. I've seen how hard men work in a day in the woods all week long. It's not a job for slackers, that's for sure. However, I have no reason not to believe you was a top producer in your day. But over time I think the figures that one recalls get a little fuzzy. Even I catch myself, or someone else does on here with numbers that don't seem right. Then I get to think about it a little harder.
SD
Sometimes we get uptight about things and the way they are explained , and really don't see ourselves as being so similar.  Think about it, and relax. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

SwampDonkey

I've never been anything but relaxed.  ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

1woodguy

this is an interesting discussion
  Haven't sold a lot of logs but a decade ago we had several places we were paid to clear cut and also had some property that was going to be strip mined and we could cut what we wanted . we were cutting mostly oak hickory walnut ash
And some cedars and pine
wife's cousin mentioned logging
so  we checked around for prices and aso called and rechecked prices several times a week some of the logs went up around Tulsa some to Arkansas
And some they came and got, for a time we were getting the most bucks for the large Pecans in Tulsa
  Also had a deal on firewood going semi loads
as far as money so much depended on the trees the type and quality how easy to get to
And mostly sell for the best price
  I think there were usually seven of us and I made three to four times what the others did (simply by watching what I was doing and keepingsaws sharp and running well and cut in my own spot mostly)when I didn't have to look out for others it went a lot faster
   If you didn't have several different places you were cutting
when the creeks or river flooded it may be two or three weeks before you could get back in and go back to work
  I usually had three to six saws I ran that no one else touched
Usually tried to work smarter not harder 
  Some guys are great with the saws and some think they are
when your running good saws that are sharp and you keep them that way
And don't spend several hours wasted using dull chains or pinching saws up over and over or hanging trees all the time you get a lot done
still lots of hours put in , then getting equipment ready for the next day
 
I   Cut fire wood for self and others for years
When around others it was always  How much can or do you cut????
Everyone tells a different tale about it and when your cutting in the same area as everyone else and we see the results some excell and some suck
If your great with a saw and paid to cut it all you might cut a load an hour or less  in good pickings
Or spend half of the day in the crap
   I would be happy if I could do a third of what I could twenty years ago  :D








   
 
Experience is a rough teacher first you get the test later comes the lesson!

Tmac47

I don't know how relevant to the topic this is, but I'm working on a smartphone app that tracks timber from the landowners property to the mill, in real time, and uploads all of the important data to the cloud.

So, at any given time a dealer or landowner can login to the website and see what's been delivered to the mill and what's en route to the mill.  Plus, they'll have access to all other relevant data like: quota, tons delivered totals, product totals, tract estimates vs cutouts, etc.

Got a call yesterday from the big dawgs at Weyerhaeuser saying that want to see it in action.

----

To bring it full circle, essentially, when enough companies are using the app, we'll be able to generate price averages for timber and distribute them to landowners for free.  So, for the first time ever, landowners will actually know what they can expect for their timber...in real time...for free.

ahlkey

I just did three loads with my small log trailer last week of various species and grade levels.  Most of it was low grade beech and low-grade hard maple but I did average $1600 a load.  My trailer can hold around 1900 bft or close to 4 cords of wood.  Couldn't get anyone to haul it for me given the band on trucking & the lateness of the season as I normally try not to do any trucking. Cost me roughly $225 in total fuel expenses for three trips to haul 5700 board feet.

Not a lot of money in those logs given the overall effort but worthwhile to me as I own the stumpage.

    

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