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Author Topic: vandalized lt40  (Read 2443 times)

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Offline pineywoods

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vandalized lt40
« on: May 06, 2013, 11:03:00 PM »
I've gotten involved in repairing a 1997 lt40 super HD with lambardini diesel that apparently has been somewhat vandalized. With 12 mills in this county, I am more or less the goto guy for mill problems. I need some help. Motor turns over but won't start. No smoke of any color from the stack. Fresh fuel in the tank, pulled hose off the output side of the fuel pump. No fuel there, but low and behold the output port is sucking air. Input and output hoses on the fuel pump had been switched. Fixed that and pulled off hose going from fuel filter to the fuel rail on the back of the head, plenty of fuel there. Still won't hit a lick, maybe glow plugs, yep no 12 volts to the glows. Jumpered the glow plug relay, plugs have power,still no go. Pulled one plug, looks ok, checks good. I'm wondering if the hoses on the fuel rail have been switched. There are 2 of them, one goes to the fuel filter and the other is a return line to the tank. The supply hose to the rail from the filter is on the left, on the back of the head, no makings of any kind.  Wiring is a mess, stuff unplugged, some plugged up obviously wrong. No manual, Sure would help if I had a wiring diagram. It's way to late in the day to call wm, will do that next time I find time to work on it. Any body have any ideas or suggestions ?
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Offline JustinW_NZ

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Re: vandalized lt40
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2013, 11:07:21 PM »
I have the same motor/mill combo by the sounds of it.
Although my wiring isn't factory as its been retro fitted and the motor has its own /start/control module.

If you need some pictures I'm happy to take some and post them up though?

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, CAT 528 swinging grapple, 10ton wheel loader.

Offline fishpharmer

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Re: vandalized lt40
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2013, 12:09:53 AM »
Pineywoods, sounds like the same model WM I have as well.  I will look for a wiring diagram or take a pic of my Lombardini in the morning and post it.
I'll try to help how I can.
James
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Offline barbender

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Re: vandalized lt40
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2013, 12:59:17 AM »
Piney, that fuel system is all mechanical other than the fuel shut off solenoid. My mill is down the road a few miles on a job, but if no one can get you pics I can run down there tomorrow and take some pictures. These engines absolutely need the glow plugs to start, FWIW. But even if their not working you should get some white smoke.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Brucer

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Re: vandalized lt40
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2013, 01:04:11 AM »
Did you bleed the fuel system?

Starting at the fuel tank end of things, crack open a fitting in the line until fuel runs freely. Once you get past the fuel pump inlet you have to crank the engine to get the fuel flowing. When the fuel flows freely, move onto the next fitting.

On my JD tractor and the Kubota engine on my edger, once I get fuel to the injector pump inlet that's good enough. But on my Cat loader I have to also crack open all four injector pump outlet lines as well. Then, when all four of them show good flow, I have to crack open each of the four injector inlet lines.

Another possibility:

A few months ago I started losing power on the Cat, and then one day it just died. I thought I'd run out of fuel, so I topped up the tank and then started pumping with the manual priming pump. Diesel fuel came spraying out of the bracket that held the fuel line in place. This was the fuel line from the fuel pump to the injector pump. I discovered that the line had cracked inside the bracket where you couldn't see it. The leak had got bad enough that there wasn't enough fuel getting to the injector pump.

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw with two 6' extensions.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Offline thecfarm

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Re: vandalized lt40
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2013, 07:12:59 AM »
Did you check the fuel tank? As did they put something into the tank? My father use to leave the old NAA here when he was mowing the fields. No one was living here than. Some one stole the distributor,than carried some sand from the road,500 feet away and put that is the hole that was left.  ::)
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline Satamax

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Re: vandalized lt40
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2013, 07:41:14 AM »
Well, diesel quick check!

Take a jerrycan, or anything like this, atach it above the injection pump, put a tube in the diesel in there, and wire that directly to the injection pump. Then if it doesn't  crack, use some sort of ether starter just to check. (start pilot from wynns iirc) Still nothing? Pull one injector at the time cranking the starter to see if they squirt a little fuel.  That's the shortest way of linking all together. If directly fed, the injection pump doesn't output anything, it needs to be looked at.
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb.

Offline mmartone

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Re: vandalized lt40
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2013, 07:43:04 AM »
The first place the fuel supply line should go is to the filter or lift pump, mechanical with a priming lever on it or an electric, remove the output line and actuate the pump, do you have fuel delivery? Next to the injection pump, crack the lines loose at lines loose off of the pump or at the injectors, spin the engine over, it make take a few min do you have fuel delivery at some pressure? Check for 12V at the studs on the glow plugs, then remove the wiring/jumper and check the glow plugs for resistance to ground, they should not show opened or they are bad. If you have fuel deliver to the injectors and the glow plugs show good it should start. You can also cheat and remove whatever sort of air filter assy it has on it and stick a heat gun in the intake. Do not use starting fluid, it can damage pistons. Standing by for your results.
Remember, I only know what you guys teach me. Lt40 Manual 22hp KAwaSaki, Husky3120 60", 56" Panther CSM, 372xp, 345xp, Stihl 041, 031, blue homelite, poulans, 340

Offline Magicman

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Re: vandalized lt40
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2013, 09:05:44 AM »
The injection pump, lines, and the injectors are all internal with this engine. 

Piney, even after priming, that engine is very hard to get started after running out of fuel.  As mentioned, glowing is an absolute necessity and will have to be done with each attempt.  If it does not start within seconds, glow again.  Continuous cranking will not work.  Be sure that you have 12 volts on the fuel solenoid.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline fishpharmer

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Re: vandalized lt40
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2013, 09:43:55 AM »
Here is wiring diagram

 
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Offline pineywoods

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Re: vandalized lt40
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2013, 10:55:35 PM »
Update of today's findings. I talked to Otto at woodmizer in Indy, plus did some more digging on my own. It now appears that all 4 injectors are frozen closed, no idea why yet. Most likely gonna be contaminated fuel that got past a fuel filter that probably never was changed. The mill has only 900 hours but is 17 years old. Otto e-mailed me a pdf file of the wiring diagram, think I can straighten out the wiring. Thanks for all the suggestion and ideas...Especially for all you guys that are running lombardinis, I'll pass on whatever I find.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Offline JustinW_NZ

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Re: vandalized lt40
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2013, 05:30:40 PM »
The injection pump, lines, and the injectors are all internal with this engine. 

Piney, even after priming, that engine is very hard to get started after running out of fuel.  As mentioned, glowing is an absolute necessity and will have to be done with each attempt.  If it does not start within seconds, glow again.  Continuous cranking will not work.  Be sure that you have 12 volts on the fuel solenoid.

Yes, I've found that too, I tend to give the primer pump 12 pushes while its glowing and then turn it over from cold and that usually works, otherwise yes, glow try, glow try..
Normaly pops into life pretty quick though :)

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, CAT 528 swinging grapple, 10ton wheel loader.

Offline pineywoods

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Re: vandalized lt40
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2013, 02:19:53 PM »
Further update after finally pulling out all 4 injectors....The lombardini uses a separate pump/injector assembly for each cylinder, sorta like the detroits. WATER  WATER WATER RUST RUST RUST. All 4 injectors/pumps are completely rusted up, even the spray nozzles rusted closed. Don't know if they can be salvaged, looking into that. Fuel in the tank is clean, fuel filter is clean, fuel in it is clean, no water. All fuel supply lines are clean and are full of clean fuel. Yet all 4 pumps/injectors are full of water and rust.  Go figure. Haven't started on the wiring, no point until The fuel system is functional.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Offline Buck

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Re: vandalized lt40
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2013, 09:38:58 PM »
Piney, give Bergeron Diesel a call. There are in Alexandria. They may be able to help you with reconditioning/replacement. They do good work.
Respect is earned. Honesty is appreciated. Trust is gained. Loyalty is returned.

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