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Author Topic: Tree cutting  (Read 7306 times)

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Offline rasorbackQ

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Tree cutting
« on: June 26, 2013, 03:33:59 PM »
 What should I be doing with the stump  cut? I normally make a notch then the back cut  Tree may fall but most times it gets hung up and doesn't fall. Then I have to wait for a high wind to get them on the ground.

 Anyways the trees that do fall  what do you do with the stump ? cut it off flat ? Leave it?
 and why?
Thanks for reading, Steven

Offline clww

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2013, 04:05:44 PM »
Depends on where it's at. If you're making a road, or clearing land for a pasture, I'd cut it as low as possible. If clearance is not an issue, I'll usually leave them around 6" high. If there are really large buttress roots (flare) on the bottom, I may leave it higher. I've never left one more than two feet high in the woods.
 If you're having lots of hang-ups, keep practicing. :)
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2013, 08:04:58 PM »
I find it's much easier to cut the stump at whatever height I want when I cut the tree. We have always logged with a farm tractor. Tractors do not like high stumps. If high winds will bring the trees down,you can't be too far off. I've had to leave a few like that. But I don't like too,even though it's my land. Most times,the more I cut,the more an area will open up and the easier it gets to fall them.
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Offline thenorthman

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2013, 12:57:49 AM »
For getting hung, do you mean just not falling, say sitting back on the saw, or getting stuck in some other tree on its way down?

There are many solutions to both.  For sit backs that is why they sell them plastic wedges...

For trees that are hung part way down each one is a little different and I am loath to give advice that isn't specific to any one situation, cause the wrong method could easily get someone one killed or maimed.

As far as stump height that all depends on what your doing, if its just firewooding on your own land cut em waist high for all I care and come back later and wack em off at the ground, if your logging for grade cut as low as root flare or dirt will allow.
well that didn't work

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2013, 05:48:33 AM »
I was thinking,hung,meant started to fall and got hung up in another tree limbs. Tree is at a very sharp angle too.
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Offline rasorbackQ

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2013, 07:21:39 AM »
 Trees are not falling . They start to fall and then get hung up on the others .  This would be great if I was clearing an area but I am trying to pick out certain trees for milling  for upcoming projects .
 Sometimes the tree will pinch the bar. More times then I like .  That just means a lot extra work. in an already tiring job.
Woods are just so thick . Sometimes I think they will fall but no........ another one hung up.
 I must have 30 good size trees hung up . Been looking for a winch for the tractor  but the winch fairy has yet to bless me.  My Honda Foreman and winch has been help but sometimes its just out gunned.

Thanks for reading, Steven

Offline bill m

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2013, 07:52:25 AM »
Without being there to see your situation it is very difficult to give sound, safe recommendations on how to improve what you are doing. Maybe ask around at local saw shops for someone who is willing to spend 1/2 a day walking your woods with you. Show him the trees you wish to cut and your methods and let him critique your cutting. He can show you what to look for in terms of lean, direction for felling, notch and back cut technique and other tricks that will make the job much easier.
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Offline dboyt

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 07:57:45 AM »
I second the idea of working with a pro.  Plastic wedges & short single-bit ax for sure, every time I go out in the woods.  Even if you just think a tree might sit back on the saw, drive a wedge in the back cut.  After you finish the hinge, a few taps on the wedge is usually all it takes to persuade the tree to go.  It it still doesn't go, you can double up your wedges, or wedge closer to the hinge.  Most chain saws have a line on the case that you can sight down to help line up the direction of the fall.  Always look up to check for potential hang-ups (and dead branches that could come down on you) and plan your exit before you start your cut.  I had the same problem until I took a training course.  A lot of forum members ridicule the "Game of Logging" training, but I highly recommend it.  I do selective cutting and thinning in the Missouri Ozarks (oak-hickory forest), and it has made a huge difference in my ability to safely put trees exactly where I want them.  Working with a professional is a good idea (I always figured that anyone that wanted to be a logger needs professional help).  A chain saw powered Lewis winch is the best tool I have ever used to free hang-ups, since it is highly portable.  It is also handy for extracting logs out of tight places.
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Online beenthere

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2013, 10:07:36 AM »
With 30 good sized trees "hung up", then you should get some help to get them down.
A portable winch may be the ticket, and the portable capstan winch may be as good or better to be of help. Your woods is becoming a danger to you and possibly others, if there are that many trees hung up.

I second the "game of Logging" to give you some needed technique, as what is happening isn't good. Not that most of us don't get a tree hung up once in awhile when trying to pick out certain ones in a stand, but leaving even one hung up isn't the safest, let alone 30 some.

But as Bill M suggests, without being there it is difficult to say anything specific. But please, don't leave them hanging.
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Offline thenorthman

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 10:10:31 AM »
This it to be used at your own risk.

depending on how far over its leaning when it gets hung up there are a few options.

the first and probably the safest is to dump another tree into it hopefully dislodging it from where its hung, this does not always work and when it doesn't it can create quite the mess.

second is to hook a long cable with a choker as low on the cut stem as you can and but a heavy roll into it so when you pull with your tractor it will roll out of the tree is hung up in, be sure to stay out from under it and pull from the not lean side.  This method works good if you have the traction, and long enough cable to be out of harms way if the tree pulls over backwards, which can and will happen.  Be careful when the butt gets stuck on something the idea of the roll is to make it twist and spin so it should dislodge but if it gets hung up on the but it can tip over on you... not good...

third option, and increasing in stupidity, is to cut small chuncks off the butt end, say 3-4', causing it to jerk and maybe dislodging from said hand up, this does not always work and usually takes 3-4 try's when it does, the dangerous side to this is the tree can swing around and fall on you especially when you take enough  of the end to allow the butt to clear the ground.

The forth option would be to watch the first season of hacks men... they get one hung up and do some really dumb stuff to get it down... granted it works... but one wrong move and they will be filling garbage bags with your brains...

Like I said use at your own risk, all these methods are inherently dangerous, some more than others, I've used them all when the situation called for it, every time the adrenalin starts pumping though.   Just be careful watch the top when ever your working around a hang up, they can and will go at anytime.
well that didn't work

Offline CCC4

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 03:30:21 PM »
PLEASE don't try and dislodge those trees with a 4-wheeler....It doesn't even matter what size timber you are in...just envision a wooden arrow! I have seen trees try and shove the grapple up underneath the skidders...grapples weigh about 3 times what yer 4 wheeler will weigh. I Have also been standing there waiting on the skidder OP to pull a lodged tree down for me and as soon as pressure is lifted off the ground the trees would dart all over the place.

Got any pics of your timber job? If we could see what yer trying to fall through, maybe more help could be offered to ya. Also what kind of timber, how tall, and how tight is the tract? What you are falling through to hit the ground makes all the difference in the world. I was cutting this set of hardwood into a mass of junk super brush, low canopy stuff. I hung up the first 8 in a row... I mean one right after another! It was just because the trees weren't gaining enough momentum off the stump, and didn't have enough top weight to punch through the brush. It was ridiculous!


Offline Ianab

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2013, 03:42:41 PM »
I can understand working with limited equipment, but for safety sake you need a better plan.

A nice LONG cable and hand winch should do the job.  Any tree that you aren't sure about, set a cable as high up as you can (ladder, throw ball, slingshot etc) That's all you need to do, get the cable up in the tree, and put the other end a safe distance away.

Now you cut the tree, use wedges etc. If it falls, great, unhook the cable and move ot the next one. If it's stuck then your move to the safe zone at the end of the cable, rig the winch to a stump, and haul it over. Yes it might take another 10 mins, but you aren't leaving a death trap hanging above your work area.

But by rigging that cable first, you have a SAFE plan B in place before you start cutting.

Ian
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Offline WH_Conley

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2013, 05:21:08 PM »
If you have 30 hung up, STOP. At least til you can get a professional, not someone that has read a book on it, look at the stand and your procedures. Talk to the local saw shop, they can point you to someone.
Bill

Offline Jamie_C

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2013, 05:36:21 PM »
I would be asking at either the local saw shop or at Turner's sawmill if there are any local guys still with manual crews in the woods around you. Maybe even give Freeman's a call, they should know of somebody. If there is then see if you can get some lessons from one of them, at the rate you are going you will end up as a statistic pretty soon.

I would say you need some help in "reading" how a tree wants to fall and also help in directional felling, falling trees is not an activity to be taken lightly. Please get some help so you can be sure to make it home safely every time you venture into the woods.

Offline rasorbackQ

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2013, 06:20:46 PM »
 When the rain lets up I will get some pics
Thanks for reading, Steven

Offline CCC4

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2013, 06:46:05 PM »
Send the rain due South if ya don't mind... 101* today... :o

Offline barbender

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2013, 07:23:40 PM »
I once got a birch with a big y in it hung right in the crotch of another birch crotch, I couldn't even pull it down with the skid steer. I finally shot it off with some 12 gauge duck loads ;D It is really tough to selective cut on some sites without some equipment to help get stuff on the ground. You have to stop and fix the situation if you have 30 hung up though, it must be pretty dangerous to walk around your woods :o I would try to find someone with a cable skidder that you could hire for a day, get all that wood on the ground and get a few decent skid trails in. After you get it opened up a bit you would be more effective with the farm tractor.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline clww

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2013, 08:02:44 PM »
I've got a 24" DBH hemlock hung up in another hemlock down the hill from the cabin. ::) I figured the rain or snow or wind or the rotation of the earth would have dislodged it before now. It's still hanging tough since last October when it happened. no_no It's no danger of falling onto anything important or any person, so I may just leave it to see how long it may take before it finally comes down..
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Offline CCC4

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2013, 10:29:35 PM »
And then there are those that just sit there waiting for you to forget that they are there... then all of  a sudden, hopefully you hear it, the tree starts crashing down to the ground.

Offline rasorbackQ

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Re: Tree cutting
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2013, 04:18:30 PM »
 I do realize the possibility of the danger in a hung up tree.  30 trees hung up is not that bad  as they are no trees near the next hung up one.   My land has 100s of hung up blow half overs by nature. If I had a tractor with winch some could be retrieved  with the 165' of cable . As of now we log with atv and log arch. Like others on here might take a hurricane to free the leaners. I don't know how a professional sawyer can drop a tree if the woods are just to thick other then planning a fall by cutting other trees before.

Thanks for reading, Steven


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