cummins problem??

CTL logger · July 20, 2013, 06:37:00 PM

The engine in my 430 fxl keeps shutting down no codes come up its after you put a full load on it a couple times in a row. Put new lift pump on it Friday it ran 6 hours quit filled the filter with fuel fired back up ran another couple hrs. Started kinda hard this morning but ran 4 or 5 hrs and quit again this time we checked all three fuel filters only the one on engine was almost empty filled it with fuel started right up, ran another hour quit same thing primary filter was almost empty anybody have any ideas ??

nk14zp · July 20, 2013, 06:40:35 PM

Start with the fuel tank vent.

CTL logger · July 20, 2013, 07:12:51 PM

Quote from: nk14zp on July 20, 2013, 06:40:35 PM
Start with the fuel tank vent.

Thanks I'll check it but the other two filters are full of fuel and have pressure on them. I'm totally stumped on this one.

HiTech · July 20, 2013, 07:21:36 PM

By some chance is there an inline filter on it? Like the metal ones they put on small gas engines. Why I ask is my buddies track hoe had one in the fuel line. It was a 4 cylinder Cummins and it would stop and then start up and stop and so on. We took that filter out and threw it away and spliced the line back together with a 5/16" sap line connecter and it has wok fine since. lol Don't laugh it was all we had that day to put it back together. Why they put a filter like that in the line is beyond us.

Ed_K · July 20, 2013, 08:22:40 PM

Crack in the line between the filters or a cracked filter housing?

1270d · July 20, 2013, 08:51:57 PM

We had a short section of rubber fuel line go bad. It was hyd hose actually but the rubber inside came loose and formed a flap that would block the line when max fuel was requires

CTL logger · July 20, 2013, 09:31:08 PM

Quote from: 1270d on July 20, 2013, 08:51:57 PM
We had a short section of rubber fuel line go bad. It was hyd hose actually but the rubber inside came loose and formed a flap that would block the line when max fuel was requires

That is something I will check it uses hydraulic hose for fuel line it's really strange the last filter is the only one that's empty but the other two are fed by the lift pump. I wish I could make it do it all the time if I get Cummins mechanic out and it runs fine most of the day it could get pretty expensive. Of course the three year warranty expired on the 15th of June I can't catch a break lately I don't have to win the the race I'd settle for 10th place at this point.

1270d · July 20, 2013, 09:50:26 PM

I had ruled out the fuel hose on our forwarder since I had taken it off and blown through it with no problem. Turns out you should blow both directions. Was a fifty dollar fix that cost two days production.

Double check the seals on your fuel filters also. I had one on the harvester which looked fine (oring) but was a little too big. Even though it came with the new filter, when screwing it in the o ring would bunch up and allow a very small air leak. Of course it would bunch up on the side you couldn't see.

CTL logger · July 20, 2013, 10:13:26 PM

Quote from: 1270d on July 20, 2013, 09:50:26 PM
I had ruled out the fuel hose on our forwarder since I had taken it off and blown through it with no problem. Turns out you should blow both directions. Was a fifty dollar fix that cost two days production.

Double check the seals on your fuel filters also. I had one on the harvester which looked fine (oring) but was a little too big. Even though it came with the new filter, when screwing it in the o ring would bunch up and allow a very small air leak. Of course it would bunch up on the side you couldn't see.

Thanks 1270D I'll check the fuel line it's pretty short between the water seperator filter and the last filter.

kiko · July 20, 2013, 10:39:06 PM

Fuel line is blocked or has a suction leak. The filter closest to the engine is low on fuel because the engine demands more than then is being supplied. So your problem could be located anywhere on the suction side. If this engine has a Manuel lift pump and you replaced it with a cummins part it has a filter inside that cannot be changed. If your fuel system is contaminated it will ruin the new lift pump immediatly. You can cut the retainer on the old pump and separated it the filter I speak of is located right where the fuel enters the pump. If this filter is clogged chances are the new one is clogged just the same. It this does not apply please provide more description of the fuel system.

bushmechanic · July 21, 2013, 06:50:11 AM

Trace the fuel lines from the tank also because some forestry machines have a electrical shut-off valve in the line in case of a fire it will shut off the fuel. You may have trouble with a solenoid breaking down after so long and that will shut off the fuel supply. I'm not familiar with the make of your machine so it may have this or may not. It may be even something as simple as debris floating around in the tank.

CTL logger · July 21, 2013, 08:48:32 AM

Quote from: bushmechanic on July 21, 2013, 06:50:11 AM
Trace the fuel lines from the tank also because some forestry machines have a electrical shut-off valve in the line in case of a fire it will shut off the fuel. You may have trouble with a solenoid breaking down after so long and that will shut off the fuel supply. I'm not familiar with the make of your machine so it may have this or may not. It may be even something as simple as debris floating around in the tank.

I've checked the screen in tank it was clean it's getting fuel all the way up to the water seperator filter then It goes through the engine block out of there into ecm then through a gear pump then to the filter that is empty then to the injection pump I don't have a parts book for this newer engine they changed to common rail injection and there isn't a lot of info about them.

Ken · July 21, 2013, 08:59:24 AM

Wish I could offer more than has already been said. Mystery problems are aggravating. The Cummins dealer mechanics here are quite helpful to answer questions or offer troubleshooting tips. Sounds like your week with a Cummins has been much like mine.

barbender · July 21, 2013, 10:29:10 AM

On the Ponsse forwarder, I have experienced this from 1. Hydraulic line used for a fuel line, like 1270d mentioned. 2. My machine has a shut off solenoid right on the fuel tank that is part of the fire suppression system, it was fun to change with a full tank of fuel in it- wear a rain coat :( I don't know if the common rail cummins have a regular fuel shut off solenoid, that would be an item to check as well.

RayMO · July 21, 2013, 10:38:39 AM

If the filter is empty the air replacing the fuel had to get there from outside the sealed fuel delivery components meaning a leak is present allowing the air to be sucked in I would think. You might be able to put some air pressure to the fuel line near tank and find the leak as fuel should be forced out where the air is entering.

CTL logger · July 21, 2013, 12:32:08 PM

Quote from: RayMO on July 21, 2013, 10:38:39 AM
If the filter is empty the air replacing the fuel had to get there from outside the sealed fuel delivery components meaning a leak is present allowing the air to be sucked in I would think. You might be able to put some air pressure to the fuel line near tank and find the leak as fuel should be forced out where the air is entering.

Thanks RayMO
A mechanic friend of mine suggested the filter base could be cracked with it being aluminium it may only open a crack up when it gets to a certain temperature like Ray said the airs getting in somewhere and when bit sits overnight it cranks over longer than normal because the system has a leak and the pressure is leaking off.

kiko · July 21, 2013, 02:36:48 PM

Is this a 6.7.litre?

CTL logger · July 21, 2013, 03:23:51 PM

Quote from: kiko on July 21, 2013, 02:36:48 PM
Is this a 6.7.litre?

8.3 liter qsc tier 3

CTL logger · July 22, 2013, 07:09:38 PM

Another trying day, put new filter, new fuel line, it only shutdown 5 times it quits at all different intervals 2 hrs then 1 then twice in 20 min then ran a couple hours and quit. Talked to Cummins they are three hours away won't tell me anything they just want to come look at it and then figure out what's wrong then come back again to fix it. Anderson equipment has been helpful they would send somebody out but they only want to send someone once at least they aren't like cummins. Maybe I'll get lucky and it will heal itself tonight. Ha ha

1270d · July 22, 2013, 07:31:41 PM

What engine is in your to forwarder? Maybe timber pro would be helpful even though its not one of their machines.

CTL logger · July 22, 2013, 08:10:21 PM

The same engine in both machines 1270D. It's really a timbco with a Komatsu undercarriage they really never changed much other than tracks. I'll see what they think tomorrow. Thanks for the help.

1270d · July 24, 2013, 06:44:01 PM

Any progress?

CTL logger · July 24, 2013, 09:29:07 PM

Quote from: 1270d on July 24, 2013, 06:44:01 PM
Any progress?

We think it's the gear pump on the bottom of the injection pump it was replaced 2000 hrs ago when it had 2000 hrs on it. We plugged the weep hole with silicone and it would barely run a stick of wood through the feed wheels take the silicone plug off weep hole and it would run fine for a while then quit when it sucked enough air in to fill the filter with air. I hope this is the problem my patience for this is wearing thin. I wanted to replace this pump on Monday but everyone I mentioned it too said if that pump was bad it would leak fuel out the weep hole it's 350 bucks I lost way more than that in production. I'll be keeping fingers crossed tomorrow, it's kinda funny the second pump lasted almost the exact same hrs as the original.

CTL logger · July 25, 2013, 06:49:41 PM

Apparently I have more than one issue. Put new gear pump on it ran great for 3 hours on the nose and started stalling or wanting to stall everytime you put it under a heavy load like running the saw or feed rolls or tracking around. Talked to a Komatsu rep he's working on it now hopefully a mechanic from Anderson can stop out tomorrow they want to check the fuel pressure. After it started stalling they had me check a few things that took about an hour we started it back up ran great for an hour then we headed home. Really out of ideas at this point???

craigc · July 25, 2013, 09:21:23 PM

We just went through this with our Case 521 loader. Did about everything you have done. Turned out to be the solenoid on the injection pump. It did exactly what your did only on the last time it just did not start again. If you have a solenoid on the pump just unhook it and wire the cable back. If she runs all day without a hiccup you know what is wrong.