$10,000 DNR Fine

[ElectricAl]

Yep, we almost got nailed $10,000 for "Open Burning" of slabs.


Apparently, Iowa Code 567 IAC 23.2  prohibits businesses from burning "solid waste"  if it does not originate on the property (trucked in).

Our slabs, edgings and sawdust are a manufacturing waste product. We cannot store the waste for more than 6 months either or it is a violation of "storing" solid waste. The sawdust cannot be spread on a farm field either.

One of our legal options is to landfill our waste that cannot be given away. Cost is $40 per ton for landfill fee and approximately $10 per ton trucking.  We make 1.5 to 2.5 tons per day. That works out to $75 to $125 per day to properly dispose of our waste products.

All the non Walnut sawdust is given to a horse farm. We did find someone to take the non Walnut bark and sawdust mix that falls on the floor. We have to deliver it 7 miles away. Some of the slabs and edge trimmings are wanted by a dog breeder with a huge outdoor wood burner. We are going to try to ship 30 bundles on a 48' lumber trailer. The breeder burns a bundle every day and a half to two days, but we make 2 to 4 bundles per day.  There is a 900 HP tub grinder available for $500 per hour with an 16 hour minimum. Have not found a market for the mulch because it contains bark.  If we give away the slabs, we'd have people coming in and out constantly wasting our time and making a mess.

The biggest problem out of the whole deal is the Walnut waste. No one wants Walnut anything. Firewood guys hate the slabs because of the volume of ash is higher.
Last year 70% of our sawing was Walnut.    There is a possibility we may have to stop sawing large orders of Walnut. That in turn would anger the logger we custom saw for and he may go elsewhere.

So you are saying to yourself....."SELF, how did Linda get into such a pickle with the DNR?"  ;D

The DNR stopped by to see if we have an "Air Quality" permit for the sawdust blower and kiln.

Hey that's a new one on us.

We can blow the sawdust on the floor and scoop it up without a permit. But since we blow it outside the building and into a wagon we are regulated. This issue has not been settled yet. DNR thinks we need to quadruple our CFM rating on the dust blower. Somehow DNR thinks more air flow and pressure is going to make less dust being expelled form a wagon.

We have to be at 40% or less light blockage at the discharge point.

That should not be a problem to obtain, I'll just saw real slow with a dull blade. ;)


So, long story long,
sawing is not as much fun as it use to be. :'(

[CHARLIE]

DanG! I'm sorry to hear about all the problems the guvm'nt is causing you.  There is a Sawmill in Preston, MN (Preston Hardwoods) and they sell their slabs to homeowners for firewood. They bundle them up, band them together with metal tape, haul it to the homeowner's home and dump it.  The homeowner is responsible to unband it and cut it into firewood chunks with their chainsaw.

Would the DNR take sawdust to spread on trails?  Is their a company around that would take the sawdust to make particle board?  I know their are stoves that burn pellets made from sawdust. There gotta be some kind of machine that you can dump in the sawdust and it spits out the pellets. Maybe get one of those and hire a teenager to run it.
  

[Kevin_H.]

Well, That's kinda scary stuff...I wonder if it would make any difference if you blew the sawdust into a building instead of a wagon.

Around here the big mills just blow it into a big pile, I think they run it to the paper plant when things are slow

Can you buy a burn permit for the slabs?

man this bites, sorry for ya.

[Tom]

Pellet manufacture has been discussed at length on the "other" forum and it is an expensive venture.  There are environmental concerns there too.

The problem with the DNR using the sawdust is that they would charge you permit fees to allow you spread it on their trails.  The they may fine you for littering.  Government Bureaucrats have only one job and that is to keep a citizen form doing what he wants to do.  The citizen may be trying to do something good or something bad but they don't have to make any decisions, just stop him.

Knock, knock.

Who's there.

Your friendly government helper.  I saw that you were trying to start a business and wanted to know if I could help you.

Thought it was going to be a Knock Knock joke, didn't you. :D

[Haytrader]

Al,

What options does the guy with the walnut have? It would seem any other mills in Iowa would have the same restrictions as you guys. Would it be a possibility to load the slabs on the truck that brings the logs and let him deal with it?

[Stump Jumper]

 >:( >:(

[ElectricAl]

Tom,


7 years ago.........Ring Ring, It's the DNR asking if we want to be added to a state wide Sawmill directory put out by the DNR to help promote the sawmill industry.

Well, now the "Environmental" part of the DNR is using the book to find all the sawmills in our 99 counties.

We have 4 sawmills listed for our county. One is out of business, 2 are 30,000'/day mills, and us.

I asked the DNR dude about the competition not listed in the book. "What other sawmills" he said.  There are 5 other part time sawmills around.

Do I rat them out to level the playing field?

[ElectricAl]

Haytrader,

We talked about having the small customers take their slabs or charge them for disposal.  The big customers would be more difficult.  They might take their logs elsewhere. :(
Too many weekend WoodMizer guys.

None know how to saw for Grade, but the price per foot is the deciding factor for many log owners.

[arj]

Guess there aren`t many FREE AMERICANS left !!!!
        None in Connecticut          
                                              arj

[Percy]

Bureaucrats are like diapers, always on yer butt and usually full of ;D...you know..heh.Anyways, Id take Als advice and not register for any government programs as its info they are after so they can basicly TAX you  some more.  ;D ;D

[Tom]

That's one thing the Forestry Stewardship Program has going against it.  They want you to sign up so that "ALL" of the pertinant Government agencies can help you with your project. :D    That would be the DNR, the EPA, the Water management people, The Air people, the Game and fish commision, The Recreation Department, the tax department.... :D

Funny how you can do so much growing up when you're already over the hill. :P  Government?  Help?  Ha!

[J_T]

man with a box foctory got turned in to EPA for open burning he put in a large boiler wood fired for his shop and house . Never stops burning 24-7 most time the smoke blowes toward the guy that turned him in ;D We all know he can't use that much hot water but it is legal. Find a loop hole.I never cut logs I cut fire wood load it on my log thuck and carry it to my proseser. I may get locked up one day but I am going to earn it >:(

[ElectricAl]

J_T,

We have 2 outdoor wood burners, and they can be real smudge pots at times. But here in Iowa if they are under a million BTU's / hr each they are unregulated.  Our's are under the million.

So our smudge pots are fine but it's $10,000 for a clean burning pile of slabs and edges >:(

[Linda]

I realize the DNR was created to benefit the environment.  The thing that bothers me most is that the political lobbyists are the ones calling the shots. >:(

For example: A clean burning wood fire, with almost no smoke is illegal, but it is okay to burn herbicide bags, plastics and other toxic products.  :-/

Less government is the best government.  

[J_T]

How can they say the waste didn't orignate on your place ?Those were perfect round wooden objects untill you made planks with bark on them. ;D What are the regs on a bar bq pitt? Stacks of siding for log house"s Fence materal. I'll try anything once

[Linda]

J_T,

We don't have any trees on our property other than 600  2-3' tall spruce and 3 year old willows. :  Otherwise, that might have worked. ;D

[firtol88]

Looks unlikely that anyone around here will be campaigning for Flipper.  :D :D :D  Nice to see, I wasn't looking forward to paying his 15%+ tax inceases.  


Anyway maybe start a gardening soil company, "boost the organic matter in your soil". Buy a chipper, mix that with piles of sawdust and if you feel like going this far add sand and soil... let it break down. If someone complains say it is future product which will require time to break down.

[ADfields]

What about a wood pellet maker and sell it all as pellet stove pellets ??? As for the blower what if you make a loft room over your mill to blow into on the floor then auger it out from there ???  And the best plan of all sell your shop and move and DON'T list your new address with the DNR ;)   It was just this kind of crap that got me fed up with the tow business in Arizona. >:(   Good luck.
Andy

[Norm]

Sorry to hear of your troubles with the DNR. We learned the hard way to make sure nobody in the state government knows what we do. Because we're farmers we are able to do many of the things you can't but you can bet we don't tell anybody local what we do back on our dead end road. Always some SOB that wants to be big brother and turn you in for some bs stuff.

DNR is not well liked in these parts, the local guy is about as lazy and worthless as they get. I had someone running an illegal trapline on our place. Found a beaver they caught and it sat there for over the 24 hours allowed. I put it out of it's misery and found no tags on the traps. Called them up and nobody returned the call or did anything about it. I kept the traps.

[tawilson]

"Less government is the best government."
You got that right. That's why we do better as a country when the congress and presidency are controlled by different parties. They are too busy fighting and less laws get passed.

[redpowerd]

this sucks, more dogcatchers
here some locals are trying to pass a junkyard law to get everyone down to one unregisterd auto per acre. ill be pithed if i have to seperate and scatter all my jeeps around the farm.
what the heck is dnr?
department of national regulations? ???

[Sawyerfortyish]

I was always worried about the same things your going through. I built a sawdust shed on the backside of my mill and sell the dust to horse farms. As for slabs that was always a problem. I bought a mulch grinder with small screens and grind it . All my waste loose sawdust bark knots cutoffs even walnut sawdust goes in the grinder. Just mix it up good with a loader .I had a big slabwood problem selling it at 5.00 a pickup load didn't work it got rid of some but left a lot of junk now I grind it and get 12.00 a yard. I increased my production by 3000 ft a day by getting rid of the waste faster.  I sell all the waste that I make cut more lumber a day and have a cleaner safer place to work by putting in a mulch grinder.  At the rate the mulch is selling the grinder will pay for itself in 5 or 6 yrs. I'm on the outskirts of a metropolitan area so mulch sells it may be differant if your in farm country

[CHARLIE]

Redpowerd, DNR stands for Department of Natural Resources.  

[raycon]

Ask around if there is a nonprofit organization that takes firewood donations -- large scale.
They won't give you cash but might give you tax deduction vouchers/ receipts.

[redpowerd]

obviously, trees arent natural resources :