New Here

etroup10 · September 01, 2013, 08:18:12 PM

Hey everyone! I'm new here, but I have been reading quite a bit on the forum. We have a few acres that we are going to get cut in the near future and I plan on sawing it. Its primarily poplar, but there is some nice oak, pine, and a little bit of ash, birch, maple, hemlock and basswood. I estimate we have around 40 mbf on the property, a lot of the trees range from 15-20" dbh, some up to 25". They are also tall and straight, I'm thinking around 4-16' logs for most of the trees(see pictures below). I also happen to have a friend of mine who is a logger move in just down the road, so when I do get the trees cut I will get a pretty good price.

I don't have a mill yet, but I am planning to get an EZ Boardwalk Jr. hopefully sometime soon. Once I get the mill I plan on selling the stuff we saw from our property to a very large, local kiln drying business. They buy oak, poplar and some other species(Oak and poplar is the majority of what I will saw) and my brother-in-law(works at the business) said they have free pick up with in 10 miles(its about 5 miles away). After sawing the stuff from our property I am considering cutting railroad ties. The same logger friend of mine said that a truck load of tie material would cost between $1000-$1200. He also said that 7"x9" ties were going for $28 a piece. Assuming 75 logs a load, and that 15% of those logs won't make ties, there would still be some room for profit, plus the side boards. Something else to mention is that the rail road tie company is maybe 10 miles from my house. So getting the ties there wouldn't be all that costly. I will also be able to do a good bit of sawing for another friend of mine. He owns a wood shavings business. They have been getting in a good bit of clear pine(he once estimated he had around 18 mbf of clear pine) but they are still shredding it up. He told me that if I get a mill I could come over and mill all their clear pine for them, plus use their equipment(wheel loader and skid loader).

I'd Love to hear what you guys have to say about it all!

-Eric

GAmillworker · September 01, 2013, 08:41:53 PM

Welcome etroup10.

great first post we love pics

sounds like you have a good bit of work ahead of you

those are some nice looking trees

Banjo picker · September 01, 2013, 08:44:48 PM

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like you have done got yourself talked into a mill... Just beware the tie market can be very fickle... Banjo

Chuck White · September 01, 2013, 08:52:33 PM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, etroup10.

Magicman · September 01, 2013, 08:56:46 PM

Hello etroup10, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

drobertson · September 01, 2013, 09:12:30 PM

Howdy, time and patience is the only answer to sawing, nice pics too! david

garyfg · September 01, 2013, 09:53:25 PM

If you don't need the money I would not cut a single tree. The view down the road is worth more than money can buy. I cut out my timber about 20 years ago and now when I take my son and grandson on atv rides I want to kick myself and sometimes worse. Do what you want to do but 20 years from now remember I told you so. Go to Lowes and get what you need and leave your beautiful forrest for you and your kids to enjoy.

WDH · September 01, 2013, 10:14:52 PM

If you are going to be sawing commercially (i.e railroad ties), a small manual mill like the one that you are thinking about is not the best mill for that activity. Way too much log handling and work. If you are going that route, you should consider a hydraulic mill. Your productivity with a small manual mill probably will not be enough for you to make it financially competing in the tie market.

etroup10 · September 01, 2013, 10:41:53 PM

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome!

etroup10 · September 01, 2013, 10:51:18 PM

Quote from: garyfg on September 01, 2013, 09:53:25 PM
If you don't need the money I would not cut a single tree. The view down the road is worth more than money can buy. I cut out my timber about 20 years ago and now when I take my son and grandson on atv rides I want to kick myself and sometimes worse. Do what you want to do but 20 years from now remember I told you so. Go to Lowes and get what you need and leave your beautiful forrest for you and your kids to enjoy.

Well the money I get from sawing is going to be going to pay off college(I'm a senior right now). The other thing I am concerned about is that we will lose the trees completely if we don't cut them. We won't be clear cutting either, probably just take everything over 12". I've found a few poplars that died recently but are still standing. We also lost most of our hemlock due to wooly adelgid(which brought down a few nice poplar and birch). Our neighbors to the west also timbered off just a few years back, so I'm also afraid of a higher chance of blow downs because of that.

etroup10 · September 01, 2013, 10:56:57 PM

Quote from: WDH on September 01, 2013, 10:14:52 PM
If you are going to be sawing commercially (i.e railroad ties), a small manual mill like the one that you are thinking about is not the best mill for that activity. Way too much log handling and work. If you are going that route, you should consider a hydraulic mill. Your productivity with a small manual mill probably will not be enough for you to make it financially competing in the tie market.

I agree that it will be a lot of work, probably more work than I think :D But I'm hoping that by the time I get our property cut I will have made a little money, and hopefully be able to build some sort of hydraulics like hackberryjake on his ez boardwalk jr. I had talked to an amish guy with the jr. and he said he had been cutting ties and did alright with them(he had no equipment or hydraulics). So I figure it would be worth a shot to try, especially if I can build some hydraulics for the mill. I'm on a budget right now being in college, and I hope to get a lot of sawing done over my winter break(mid-December through the end of January).

justallan1 · September 02, 2013, 12:30:09 AM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Etroup.
Sounds like you have a plan to work towards with a few possibilities. Good luck.

Allan

m wood · September 02, 2013, 05:38:42 AM

welcome etroup10. sounds like you are set up in a location with good resources, on the land and off of the land. With all those networks and close locations for salse you could experience low(er) overhead. Ever thought of borrowing a bit to go for a larger/faster mill? seems like you got the recipe for a DanG nice business plan to present to the Chamber of Commerce for maybe a micro loan. just a thought. Whats your degree gonna be in? We love to hear about newcomers here :laugh:
Mark

nk14zp · September 02, 2013, 06:36:50 AM

Welcome to the site.

Gasawyer · September 02, 2013, 07:16:54 AM

Welcome to the forum etroup10! Good luck with your project.

dboyt · September 02, 2013, 07:27:14 AM

Etroup10, welcome to the forum. Looks like you've got a beautiful place! Look closely at the tie market before you commit. Can you visit the Amish fellow who is cutting them on a manual mill? You'll need some support equipment, mainly a loader that can pick up bundles of 10 ties (about a ton and a half) at a time, and a trailer to haul them to the yarding area. I milled hardwood ties on a manual mill for a while, it it is a lot of work... hope you're in good shape! Lots of sawmills will be at the Paul Bunyan show in Cambridge, OH in about a month. That'll be a good place to see them in action.

customsawyer · September 02, 2013, 07:43:02 AM

Welcome to the forum.

etroup10 · September 02, 2013, 10:00:58 AM

Quote from: m wood on September 02, 2013, 05:38:42 AM
welcome etroup10. sounds like you are set up in a location with good resources, on the land and off of the land. With all those networks and close locations for salse you could experience low(er) overhead. Ever thought of borrowing a bit to go for a larger/faster mill? seems like you got the recipe for a DanG nice business plan to present to the Chamber of Commerce for maybe a micro loan. just a thought. Whats your degree gonna be in? We love to hear about newcomers here :laugh:
Mark

Thanks! I've "thought" of getting a bigger, faster mill but I just can't let myself put that much money into it at this point. My degree will be in Environmental Biology. I'd like to get a job with the state as a field biologist but I'm also considering taking forestry classes at another school(penn state) after I graduate and maybe becoming a forester?

etroup10 · September 02, 2013, 10:13:27 AM

Quote from: dboyt on September 02, 2013, 07:27:14 AM
Etroup10, welcome to the forum. Looks like you've got a beautiful place! Look closely at the tie market before you commit. Can you visit the Amish fellow who is cutting them on a manual mill? You'll need some support equipment, mainly a loader that can pick up bundles of 10 ties (about a ton and a half) at a time, and a trailer to haul them to the yarding area. I milled hardwood ties on a manual mill for a while, it it is a lot of work... hope you're in good shape! Lots of sawmills will be at the Paul Bunyan show in Cambridge, OH in about a month. That'll be a good place to see them in action.

Thanks! I got to visit the Amish fellow last weekend. For support equipment I was thinking an older tractor with a loader, like maybe a Ford 8N. My neighbor actually has a 1950s Massey Ferguson 250 with a loader for sale right now. Do you think either of them would work? As of now, I've gotten to see a few mills run, including the EZ Boardwalk jr, woodmizer mills, timbery mills, hud-son mills and lucas mills. From what I've seen I like the jr. Its a good price and a lot sturdier than the hud-son mills.

Migal · September 02, 2013, 06:27:05 PM

Welcome to the forum 8)

John_Haylow · September 02, 2013, 06:52:46 PM

Welcome to the forum. You have some nice looking trees there.
John

dboyt · September 04, 2013, 09:12:09 AM

An 8N with a loader can do a lot more than you'd think, especially if you hang a PTO winch off the back of it. Besides giving the old Ford more pulling power, the weight helps keep the rear wheels on the ground when you're using the front end loader. Max lift is about 600 pounds before you lose traction with the rear wheels, which can make carrying logs downhill pretty exciting. A log arch really expands the pulling ability of the tractor. I'm very pleased with the Norwood mill, by the way. They're a sponsor, and you can click on their banner on the left side of the screen for more info.

etroup10 · September 04, 2013, 10:17:39 PM

Thanks for the info on the 8N dboyt! I was hoping that it might be able to move a bundle of rr ties. I would still probably get one to make log handling easier to/on the mill. Do you think it could lift a stack of stickered boards? Earlier you mentioned the Paul Bunyan show, turns out I might be making my way out there. I talked to Ed from EZ boardwalk and he said if I do buy one of there mills, I could pick it up after the show and not have to pay any shipping. Overall it would save me a couple hundred bucks to do it that way.

beenthere · September 04, 2013, 10:37:17 PM

QuoteDo you think it could lift a stack of stickered boards?

Might figure about 5 lbs a board foot, and the 8N limit on the FEL was said to be about 600 lbs. So maybe 120 bd ft. in the stack if red oak ??

If 8' boards 1" thick boards, stickered in 4' wide pile, 32 bd ft per layer or 160 lbs. So just shy of 4 layers would be 600 lbs.

For a log, a red oak, 14" scaling diam 10' log will be nearly 700 lbs

etroup10 · September 04, 2013, 10:50:27 PM

So maybe it would be better then to save up for something that has a little more lifting capacity? A rough terrain forklift or a bigger tractor with a FEL would be nice. If I can continue to saw for my friend and use there equipment I should be able to save up for something nice later. Any ideas about using light equipment to simply move the stacks/ties around, not necessarily lifting them to stack but just moving them out of the way? I was thinking maybe a smallish cart, with maybe 2 manual hydraulic jacks in the middle and a 4' square piece of steel on top of the jacks to put the boards on. You could then stack your boards/ties on top with the jacks all the way up, then drive between logs/cinder blocks and lower the jacks. The lumber would then rest on the logs/cinder blocks and you could just pull away. Would that be doable on a budget?