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Author Topic: Band advice sought  (Read 1887 times)

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Offline scsmith42

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Band advice sought
« on: September 28, 2013, 11:42:46 AM »
I am in the process of expanding my milling operation to add a 36hp band mill to augment my Peterson WPF.  Since I'm new to bandmills, I would like to educate myself about the various band options.  From what I've learned so far, I will probably be using a 1-1/4" wide band, but I'm not sure what brand, angle, thickness would be best, and am seeking advice.

I typically mill oak - both red and white, but predominantly white.

Advice from knowledgeable folks would be most appreciated.  Thx.

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Offline two-legged-sawmill

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2013, 12:25:38 PM »
Hello Scott,  I dont mean to be critical or smart, but my Dad always pounded to mind, make sure it is SHARP!
"There are no secrets to success. It is the results of preperation, hard work, and learning from failures"

Offline giant splinter

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2013, 12:59:11 PM »
Scott,
I think all the sawyers have their own favorite brands and specific band types, for oak I like the new 7 Wood-Mizer just came out with although I rarely get oak here the western larch we have is also very dense and the 7 seems to get through it very nicely. The majority of the time I run a W/M 10 blade, your 36 horse power will make a huge difference sawing oak as compared to my 28hp LT40HD standard and you will be able to take advantage of that power with the new 7 that they now offer.
I have not had the opportunity to try any other brands as yet and just started a search to see what I can find, I know there are many high quality band manufacturers out there and I am interested in giving them a try.
I am interested in the advice of the experts on the forum as well and will follow your post to see their preferences for hard and softwood choices.
                                                                                                                  GS
roll with it

Offline slider

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2013, 01:21:12 PM »
Scott I use 10 degree most of the time on pine and some oak ,Woodmizer bands and do well if they stay sharp and have enough set.Although i did witness Danny and Jake having issues with some dry pecan and after switching to a 4 degree band things got much better.On green oak the 10's have done ok for me.My understanding is the new 7 turbo band from woodmizer takes more horsepower.I cue some green hickory a while back with the 10 degree wm's and it came out great .Might as well get you a sharpener and setter.Good luck. al
al glenn

Offline barbender

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2013, 02:02:49 PM »
I have done most of my sawing with WM standard 7 (I haven't tried the turbo 7 yet) and 10, I prefer the 7, they have more set and do better in wide cuts. I've used both doublehards and silvertips, the doublehards do stay sharp longer, the silvertips cut just as good for a lot less money. In my experience, the silvertip is as good as other manufacturers premium blade, but WM kind of treats the silvertip line like a red headed step child. Now that I have my own sharpening equipment I will probably start using just silvertips again, if I was sending them out to resharp then it would probably make more sense to use the doublehards. I also trialed some Lenox C-sharp blades that member Dan Sawyer set me up with, they cut very well, they are more flexible than the WM doublehards so they may have more flex life. My local Lenox supplier hasn't gotten his C-sharp stock in yet, so I don't know where the pricing will be. If the price is reasonable, they are definitely a good blade.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline drobertson

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2013, 03:36:52 PM »
You cant' go wrong with any of the bands out there, it kinda boils down to who is going to do the sharpening,  wmz makes some really good blades,  as a side note, I wish band manufacturers made blades with a 1" pitch, 1-1/8 just a bit wide, 7/8  ok, just would like a little more gullet.  Maybe some day, as to the angle, the 7's are hard to beat.    david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline xlogger

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2013, 04:57:03 PM »
Scott. are you going to sharpen them yourself? Get with me and I'll give you a name of someone close here in NC that will do it and sell you the blades at a good price. Ricky
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2013, 05:08:01 PM »
I started 12 yrs ago with 9s and 10s and more recently added 7s and 4s.    Red oak is one of the easiest to bandsaw and white oak not bad either.  Wide and dried out white oak can get harder to saw.  I think you wouldnt go wrong ordering 3 boxes of 7s and a box of 4s,  getting a 15% discount with free shipping from Woodmizer.  I use 1-1/4  0.045" bands only.  They break somewhere between 4 and 6 sharpenings usually.  No experience with other brands.   The  4 degree blades are what you pull out when a fresh 7 won't do the job (perhaps like cutting down a 32" diameter white oak log that's lost its bark and is substantially dried out. Or if you're resawing a very valuable dry board in two and can't afford any waves.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide, 2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker),  Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Offline JustinW_NZ

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2013, 05:03:56 AM »
Around here the 1 1/2 by .45 bands seem to be the go, another local mill is getting 10+ sharpens and i would say im getting that at least too (ive lost track) but that aside they seem to handle the really springy and unstable stuff we have to cut around here.
Keeping 10deg  sharp im getting through most things around here in terms of hardwood. (Eucalypts)
Ive just tried a woodmizer 7 turbo today and found it appeared to outlast the 10s and i felt i could push it faster for longer especially in the big wide cuts (was large timber)

My 10c worth anyway.
Cheers
Justin



Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, CAT 528 swinging grapple, 10ton wheel loader.

Offline scsmith42

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2013, 08:39:31 AM »
Thanks all for the feedback; looks like the consensus is the WM 7's.  I'll get a few 4's just for the heck of it.

Occasionally I might mill some SYP for the farm.  Which band would be best for it?

In my Peterson I use straight water for a blade lube; would this be suitable for oak milled on the band mill as well?  I know that a lot of folks use diesel, but I'm wondering about other options for oak. 

Thanks.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2013, 01:28:11 PM »
Haven't sawed SYP but 7s do great for EWP.  Or 10s.  You could increase the set of either to .030" or so and be real happy in knotty wood I think.   Red oak needs only a bit of water but some Cascade doesn't hurt even one "glug" per 5 gal.   White oak maybe 3 glugs, or turn up the lube volume, whatever it takes. Just watch the band & do what it takes to keep it clean.  The worst buildup I've encountered is with spruce or douglas fir where the standard 5 glugs cascade per 5 gal with lube on the fast end of pulsing, or continuously in wide wood or to get it clean again,  will do.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide, 2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker),  Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Offline mikeb1079

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2013, 11:09:18 PM »
i'm no expert but i believe there's a few fellows on here (jake and maybe stavebuyer, or bibby?) that run the 1 1/2" .055 bands and recommend them.  i was thinking that the additional beam strength allowed for a faster feed rate.  might be something to consider....
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
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Offline barbender

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2013, 12:12:06 AM »
In my limited experience with 1 1/2" blades, I tried out some .045", .050", and .055". It seems to me you gain far more going to a thicker blade (.045 to .055) than going from the 1 1/4" to 1 1/2". For the same thickness blade, I couldn't tell much difference between a 1 1/4" and a 1 1/2".
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Brucer

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2013, 01:12:07 AM »
I've only used Wood-Mizer blades, mainly because if I get on the phone before 4:00 PM I'll have a box waiting at the bus depot the next morning :D. I've heard good things about other brands. I think the really important thing is to stick with one brand for a while before trying something else.

I started with 1-1/4", 0.045, 10 blades, cutting only western softwoods. On one difficult job I tried a 1-1/2", 7 blade and it was great for very wide, very dry spruce (with hard knots). Cutting was a bit slower than the 10 blades, but I only have 28 HP gas on my mill.

I eventually switched to 1-1/2", 0.045, 10 blades for my regular sawing and that's now my standard. I kept the old blade guide rollers (didn't know I could get wider ones) and they worked OK. I just recently upgraded to 1-1/2" blade guide rollers and that lets me saw a bit longer with a slightly dull blade.

Wood-Mizer suggests that in frozen wood you use 1-1/4" blades; wider blades don't work as well. That's something to consider in your planning. On a WM mill if you want to switch between wider and narrow blades, you will have to shift your blade guide rollers in and out slightly. And if you decide to use the wider rollers with the wider blades, you'll also have to be prepared to switch them as well.

Other brands may have different requirements for switching blades widths, so hopefully owners of other types of mill can comment on this.

I've been sharpening some 1-1/2", 0.050, 10 blades for another mill owner. First time I tried to coil one of those I dislocated my shoulder (really). Even folding them to fit in the shipping box is a lot harder. I don't think I'd go for a blade this thick myself.

I don't saw much pitchy wood, so I run straight water in the summer and add in some window washer fluid in the fall and spring. If your blade starts to run hot (say in wide, dry wood) it will expand and you'll start to lose blade tension. Water is a much better coolant than diesel so you can often maintain tension on your blade by just flooding the blade with water.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw with two 6' extensions.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2013, 10:14:49 AM »
I use WM 10 1.25"x.055" for white pine and 4 1.25"x.055" for locust and white oak, or anything frozen. I am thinking about trying a box of Turbo 7 bands.

Whenever I hear about Canadians picking things up at the bus depot, I always picture a big cardboard box sitting in a seat looking out the window. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"Logrite!

Offline scsmith42

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2013, 03:06:25 PM »
Many thanks to everybody for the great feedback; please keep it coming.  Hopefully Bibby will chime in with some of his learned advice.

Ricky - fortunately I'll have my own sharpener, but thanks for the offer.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Offline Larry

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2013, 04:29:28 PM »
but predominantly white.

With that in mind I would use the WM 7 degree band.  I tested there new Turbo 7 and it may cut a bit faster but not a big difference.  With the taller tooth there is less meat in the body of the band, so I didnt think I could sharpen it as many times as the standard 7 degree band. 

I would also keep a few of the 4 degree bands on hand in case you come across some dried out white oak.  Might work better in the winter when logs are froze/half froze.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

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Offline Brucer

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Re: Band advice sought
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2013, 12:27:26 AM »
Whenever I hear about Canadians picking things up at the bus depot, I always picture a big cardboard box sitting in a seat looking out the window. :D

Greyhound in Canada isn't the same outfit as Greyhound in the US. Buses were usually running with the baggage compartments half full, so they began to compete with the couriers by filling up those baggage compartments. Not a bad idea. The bus is going to follow the route anyway, and passengers will pay a good portion of the cost, so why not make the most of the available space. In fact, there is now a division known as Greyhound Courier Express.

Of course there is the problem of what do you do when the bus is full of passengers (e.g., Christmas time) and there isn't much room in the baggage compartment. Simple solution -- put a small trailer behind the bus ;D.

It's very competitive compared to the traditional couriers, just as long your shipping between communities that are on the bus route.

Recently in our area passenger traffic has fallen off to the point where Greyhound received permission to drop some of its scheduled routes. But there is still daily package delivery. Never did see a box of blades looking out the window, but they way the trend is going, that may happen one of these days.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw with two 6' extensions.
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