The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems




Author Topic: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)  (Read 8171 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline caveman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Lakeland, Florida
  • Gender: Male
  • In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king
    • Share Post
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2014, 10:04:47 PM »
 

 

 

  This is the removable panel on the front of the kiln.  We only installed one layer of foam insulation in this panel and the doors. 

  On all of the walls, we--mostly John--installed two pieces of foam between the studs.  I cut them close to the right size and he used a hammer and a block of wood to encourage them to conform to the space available.

  We made quite a mess.  Hopefully we will finish the wall insulation tomorrow afternoon and enlist the kids to help us clean up. We have a lot of foam left so at some point we will insulate the area between the floor joists. 
I also realized that I have accumulated enough scrap metal to justify hauling it off.
Caveman 
Caveman

Offline caveman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Lakeland, Florida
  • Gender: Male
  • In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king
    • Share Post
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2014, 10:09:04 PM »
As Andy stated in his post about his kiln, JMoore and I took a few more bites out of the elephant this afternoon.  We were able to get the boards and battens on the doors and the removable panel.  We still need to panel the inside, insulate under the floor, build the plenums for the fans, wire it, paint and install the metal collectors.  The pictures are of the side we will load the kiln from.   

  

 
Caveman

Offline Andy White

  • In Memoriam
  • *
  • Posts: 809
  • Age: 68
  • Location: Brookeland Texas 75931
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm not so new anymore!!
    • Share Post
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2014, 07:04:45 AM »
Caveman,
That elephant looks mighty tasty! The B&B siding looks like it belongs there. When complete, are you going to move it around, or set it up stationary? Good looking job, and if you can, show pictures of the fan plenum and baffle. Stay safe,   Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

Offline caveman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Lakeland, Florida
  • Gender: Male
  • In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king
    • Share Post
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2014, 05:50:51 PM »
Andy, we plan to move it to a sunny area, which we may have to create at my place due to all of the live oaks, and orient it to collect the most energy from the sun that it can.  I want to be able to move it but do not intend to move it much once we find a good place for it.  We have not started on the plenum.  I have some regular garage sale shoppers looking for some metal bladed fans.  We will build the plenum to fit the fans.  I suppose the next step will be to panel the inside with the 5/8" boards we cut for that purpose a few weeks ago.  Also, I need to locate some long bolts to mount a 4"x4" to the removable panel to give me somewhere to grab it with the tractor forks.
Caveman
Caveman

Offline caveman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Lakeland, Florida
  • Gender: Male
  • In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king
    • Share Post
Re: Caveman/JMoore kiln update(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2014, 09:44:09 PM »
 

  

  

  

   We have not posted anything on the kiln build in nearly three months.  JMoore has been busy with his son's tee ball team.  I have been really busy with work (ag teaching) and dealing with damaged knee cartilage.  Today, we (mostly John) made a little progress.

John suggested putting the chicken house insulation on top of the floor instead of beneath and between the joists.  We did this and decked it with another layer of 5/8" plywood we salvaged months ago.  The plenum was framed with 1" x 3" pine and sheeted with some more salvaged plywood.  A few months ago, I painted some used metal roofing black.  This morning we installed that also. 

We located some fans.  We need to replace the power cords on them and wire the kiln.  The fans each have four 24" blades, and 1/2 hp, 1725 rpm motors.  They may be overkill but the price was right.

There is a large panel between the two doors.  It is heavier than two of us can routinely lift without making some of our internal parts external.  Last week, I cobbled up a skid steer quick connect mount that we will through bolt to the panel.  If I can driver a tractor well enough we should be able to remove and install the panel using the tractor's hydraulics.  We will need to ensure the ground and the kiln are on the same grade for this to work.  If any of you see anything that we should do differently don't hesitate to say so. 
Caveman
Caveman

Offline caveman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Lakeland, Florida
  • Gender: Male
  • In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king
    • Share Post
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2014, 07:10:27 PM »
Wow, I got a warning that it has been over 120 days since I posted anything on the kiln.  Today, John and I finally got around to moving the beast.  In order to make room for it, we had to take down nine live oaks, a few water oaks and a pine tree.  We only had to replace one section of my neighbor's chain link top rail (the darn things were all leaning the wrong way). Also, we had to cut several low hanging limbs between my shop and the kiln spot with a pole saw.

John aired up the tires in preparation for our 400' journey.  They were only flat on the bottom. 

 
We hooked the kiln's hitch to the draw bar and John coached me in the backing process (I could not see around the kiln) in order to avoid smashing sheds, trucks, and other obstacles. 


After positioning the kiln in the sunny spot we created with the collector facing south, we began the leveling process using old air plane screw jacks, a floor jack and the tractor's forks.  We had some fine tuning to do on the doors to ensure they opened and closed smoothly.  Finally, we mounted the skid steer quick connect frame that I melted together a few months back.

 

Sometime before too long, we need to run about 380' of wire to power the fans, dehumidifiers, lights and a few outlets and lights in the mill shed.

There are no vents in this kiln.  When it is empty, would we be wise to leave a door ajar?  My inclination is to keep it closed up.

 
Thanks for looking,
Caveman


Caveman

Offline YellowHammer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4162
  • Age: 54
  • Location: New Market, Alabama
  • Gender: Male
  • Take Steps to Save Steps
    • Share Post
    • Hobby Hardwood Alabama
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2014, 07:46:43 PM »
There are no vents in this kiln.  When it is empty, would we be wise to leave a door ajar?  My inclination is to keep it closed up.
With an empty solar kiln, the temperatures will skyrocket, especially since you are in Florida. I live in Alabama and when I had an empty solar kiln, I ended up melting the plastic roof panels from the excess heat.  An open door may swing uncontrollably in the wind and may damage hinge hardware.  I'd advise putting in vents, (I use 4 simple rectangular foundation sliding vents, placed high and low) but its hard for me to give advice to a guy who's built a work of art like yours. 8)
YH
HobbyHardwoodAlabama.com

Offline caveman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Lakeland, Florida
  • Gender: Male
  • In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king
    • Share Post
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2014, 08:59:12 PM »
Thanks, YellowHammer.   It gets hot and does not take long.  Melting the panels would be an enthusiasm smasher-the panels were the costliest part of this project to date.  I was inside some today while John was outside and we were checking tolerances on the doors and panel.  In just a few minutes I felt like a poor puppy left to guard the family sedan in a Walmart parking lot during the summertime. We should be able to come up with some sort of vent.  The amount of experience and talented folks who frequent this forum never ceases to impress me. It is nice not having to reinvent the wheel.
Kyle 
Caveman

Offline Dakota

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Deadwood, South Dakota
  • Gender: Male
  • Swing'en in South Dakota
    • Share Post
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2014, 10:10:29 AM »
If you left the door ajar, I'd make sure a child couldn't get in there and close the door.

Dakota
Dave Rinker

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2671
  • Location: Bishop, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • Author of "Sawing Hardwood Lumber"
    • Share Post
    • Book on Sawing hardwood Lumber
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2014, 10:27:09 AM »
A solar kiln without lumber can indeed exceed 200 F. 

So when the moisture is evaporated from the lumber, and into the air, how will this moisture in the air be removed from the kiln?
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline caveman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Lakeland, Florida
  • Gender: Male
  • In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king
    • Share Post
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #50 on: November 25, 2014, 11:13:41 AM »
We have a couple of dehumidifiers that we will use to remove the moisture.  There is still work to be done before we can start attempting to kiln dry lumber successfully.  The biggest obstacle is running electricity to the kiln from the shop ($$$). Also, we need to mix up some stain (boiled linseed oil, diesel and roofing tar) for the outside and make the bottom look more presentable from the neighbor's perspective-she is a great neighbor and I hope to keep her happy.

As of now, we intend to power two kiln fans, two room dehumidifiers, a light or two, and maybe a few outlets (nice to be able to plug in power tools).  Is there any other electrical appliance that we are missing?
Thank you,
Kyle

Caveman

Offline caveman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Lakeland, Florida
  • Gender: Male
  • In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king
    • Share Post
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2014, 11:19:44 AM »
WoodDoc, the dehumidifiers will drain outside through tubes through the floor.  Thank you for your expertise and helping all of us aspiring to produce quality lumber.

After moving the kiln yesterday, we were a little apprehensive that the roof may leak due to the flexing during the move.  It rained about 3" in two hours this morning and thankfully the inside of the kiln is bone dry, everything else is flooded.  Blind hogs...
Caveman

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2671
  • Location: Bishop, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • Author of "Sawing Hardwood Lumber"
    • Share Post
    • Book on Sawing hardwood Lumber
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2014, 01:12:16 PM »
It is obvious from the pictures that you have a well designed kiln.  "No leaks" is indeed awesome.  Maybe you should use pine tar on the bottom and add a rudder so you can use the kiln as an ark, if it rains really heavy again.

Venting, instead of DH, can be more efficient, especially with wood that dries easily, like pine.

For your reference, 1000 bf of lumber requires removal of about 28 to 30 pints of water to lower the moisture by 1% MC.  So, with the amount of lumber in the kiln and the rated capacity of the DH units, you can calculate the maximum drying rate.  This would apply to wet lumber.  The units will not dry at their rated capacity when the wood is under 30% MC...we are waiting for the moisture to move from the interior of the wood to the surface, which depends on temperature and humidity and not the ability of the DH unit.

The clear cover will actually lose a lot of heat when dark.  So to prolong the usefulness of the DH units at night, cover the collector with an insulating blanket and the heat will stay in the kiln.  Of course, with 24 hour drying that will result, you will not relieve the stresses (also called casehardening).  This relief is accomplished in a kiln without a DH because at night the humidity in the kiln reaches 100% RH as the kiln cools.  Plus in a vent solar kiln, the fans are turned off at night.r

Also, be aware that the household DH units usually will not work above 113 F...they may have an automatic shut off.  Above 113 F, the lubrication fails, so the compressors will wear, plus the compression cycle may fail too and blow a gasket.  So, you would not use them when the sun is shinning, so you need vents to exhaust moisture in the daytime.  Technically, the vents are not opened very wide...just enough to keep the RH from getting too high.  We want to avoid exhausting too much heat.  Most kiln operators adjust the vent opening once a week.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline caveman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Lakeland, Florida
  • Gender: Male
  • In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king
    • Share Post
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2015, 07:14:50 PM »
It has been quite some time since we updated this kiln build.  It still has not dried any wood but we ran wire to it last week to power the fans, light and dehumidifiers.  We still need to finish the wiring.  Jmoore and I mixed up a variation of the Uncle Larry's stain concoction and sprayed and brushed it on using a TSC pump up sprayer and a brush.  The pine really soaked up the mix.  The cypress we recently sawed will be the first wood to be dried in the kiln.  It will air dry for a month or so and then we will finish it off in the kiln.

 
Caveman

Offline caveman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Lakeland, Florida
  • Gender: Male
  • In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king
    • Share Post
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2016, 10:25:22 PM »
Today, Jmoore and I finally got electricity to the kiln.  We ran a separate circuit for the dehumidifiers.  The fans are on the same circuit as the mill shed.  We wired the timers, lights and an outlet or two.  He and I work for the local school board and have had the past two weeks off (except for emergencies like busted water pipes and greenhouse irrigation woes-life of an ag teacher).  We have run several hundred feet of electrical wire, PVC pipe, mixed and applied stain, wired the mill shed and kiln and found time to mill some really nice bald cypress.  The hot air was really moving when we turned on the fans today.  I am anxious to see how this contraption works.  I guess the next purchases will need to be moisture meters and thermometers for the kiln.

Caveman

Offline caveman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Lakeland, Florida
  • Gender: Male
  • In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king
    • Share Post
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #55 on: March 22, 2016, 04:31:46 PM »
Update:  We finally stacked two small loads in the kiln yesterday.  One stack of "not very good" cedar slabs and a stack of monkey puzzle slabs were put into the kiln yesterday.  This was the first time we removed the large panel that we made the skid steer attachment for.  It did not do too bad but it is much easier to remove and install with two people. Basically, we needed room to air dry some nice cedar we sawed yesterday and want to get an idea of how long it will take to dry 2" slabs to below 15%MC.

 
I think once we get the ground on the same plane as the kiln and remove the irregularities installing the panel will not take but a few minutes.  We have a door on each end that the panel fits between.
Caveman
Caveman

Offline YellowHammer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4162
  • Age: 54
  • Location: New Market, Alabama
  • Gender: Male
  • Take Steps to Save Steps
    • Share Post
    • Hobby Hardwood Alabama
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #56 on: March 22, 2016, 10:23:29 PM »
Glad it's working.  It won't be too long.
HobbyHardwoodAlabama.com

Offline Planman1954

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 805
  • Location: Marion, Louisiana
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #57 on: March 25, 2016, 09:48:00 AM »
Yes...please keep us updated! You are the reason I took the time to document the build process. It makes me happy that someone took the initiative to go for it! Take pictures and post your drying times and progress. Thanks.
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 / Solar Dry Kiln /1943 Ford 9n tractor

Offline caveman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Lakeland, Florida
  • Gender: Male
  • In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king
    • Share Post
Re: Pre-build solar kiln questions(Photos of kiln building progress)
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2016, 06:35:35 PM »
A few minutes ago I went out to the kiln to check on the 3/4"x3 1/2" 14' boards we stuck in there 12 days ago.  We still have not installed vents or turned on the DH.  The first week we just propped the doors open with stickers (the kiln stayed quite a bit warmer than the outside even after dark).  The past six days we left one door propped open 3/4".  The wood seems dry enough to use to mount over shingles and attach metal to.  We still have not purchased a moisture meter. 

The Monkey Puzzle and cedar slabs that were in the kiln were considerably drier/lighter after a little time in there with the fans running during the daytime and the doors propped open slightly.  They are now flat stacked and in hiding.
After listening to Dr. Gene, WDH, and Yellow Hammer this weekend discuss drying wood at The Project, I think this kiln has a chance to produce quality lumber.

The cypress that was intended to be the first load in the kiln has been sticker stacked and drying in the wood owner's shed since early January.  He has decided to use it on the outside portion of his house so it will not be placed in the kiln.  We still have a good whack of his cypress logs that we will saw eventually.  After hearing Jake mention bad behavior by partially dry cypress logs I am beginning to get a little anxious about them.
Caveman
Caveman


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Solar Kiln Build Progress

Started by Woodslabs on Drying and Processing

3 Replies
885 Views
Last post July 29, 2015, 05:17:24 PM
by CaseyK
question
Questions About Building A solar Kiln

Started by sawmillhand on Drying and Processing

9 Replies
748 Views
Last post November 23, 2013, 01:53:51 PM
by Planman1954
xx
Planning my solar kiln build, have questions

Started by boonesyard on Drying and Processing

8 Replies
527 Views
Last post May 11, 2019, 09:44:12 AM
by boonesyard
xx
Getting ready to build a Solar Kiln some questions

Started by just_sawing on Drying and Processing

18 Replies
2150 Views
Last post September 16, 2015, 09:54:53 AM
by tule peak timber
 


Powered by EzPortal