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Author Topic: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wheel  (Read 4034 times)

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Offline chisel

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Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wheel
« on: June 05, 2004, 03:20:49 PM »
Hello all,

I know everyone is out sawing on this beautiful day and I'm sitting in front of my computer thinking about building a mill!

I'm not trying to start a war here, but I see lots of differing options/opinions on band wheel types: car tires, v-belt pulleys and steel wheels with no tire or between the wheel and the blade. On the steel wheel with no tire, isn't the blade much more likely to break if something gets between the blade and the wheel? I know Cook's uses this setup, but there's nothing to "give" if this happens.

Opinions/experience with the band on steel type setup?
I've never run a mill, so how likely is it that a chunk of whatever gets between the blade and wheel?  

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2004, 03:40:21 PM »
  We had that happen 2 times, that we know of. We use boat trailer tires and one time, it started to burn the rubber. The other time, it went right on around and out the housing. Might be something to the theory of "give" of an inflated tire :o ;) ;) ;D ;D
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Offline D._Frederick

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2004, 04:17:05 PM »
chisel,

The major manufactures of band mills with narrow bands that run metal to metal band wheels tension them either with springs or with air bladders. This helps some to reduce the shock of getting a chunk of wood between the blade and the wheel, but the mass of the wheel and bearings assy. is still a factor.

Offline chisel

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2004, 04:48:24 PM »
FDH,
Seems like the trailer tires might be the easiest, cheapest, and most forgiving, esp. for a newbie like me. :)

D Frederick,
I didn't know about the air bladder system as you described, although I didn't think about it, my Delta bandsaw is tensioned w/ a spring.

I was looking at the Linn Lumber site (I have his video where he assembles a saw head) and saw the "hydraulic blade tensioner" that Gary uses. About halfway down this page:

http://www.linnlumber.com/sawmill_parts.html

It has a manual screw pump and cylinder. Seems a bit steep at $400, but I've searched the web for hours and haven't found anything similar, but I like the idea of the hydraulic tensioning...I thought it would help me see if the band was getting too hot, and I could replicate the settings when installing a new blade.

Thanks for your all's thoughts.

Offline slowzuki

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2004, 05:26:45 PM »
It appears the cooke screw pump is or is patterned after one from a hydraulic bearing/pulley separator.

Offline Rod

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2004, 05:28:09 PM »
What you do so that nothing will get between the wheel and the blade is put a piece of metal in front of the plade guide  and just a hair off the blade and that makes it so that nothing will get between the blade and the wheel.

As for tensioning the blade on trailer tires it is not a problem cause the tires don't let the blade slip like it would on metal to metal. :)

Offline Rod

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2004, 05:30:30 PM »
And another thing is you don't have to worry about the cown in trailer tires like you do with steel wheels.

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2004, 05:44:40 PM »
  We have the metal shield Rod talks about. It is a small wire brush that wipes the build-up from the blade, before it gets mashed TO the blade from pressure against the tire. It STILL had 2 different chunks get between the tire and blade.

  Highway tires ARE already crowned.
All truth passes through three stages:
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   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline D._Frederick

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2004, 05:55:15 PM »
chisel,

The using a trailer tire for a band wheel still has some problems: it must be perfectly round or it will cause blade whip, it must be perfectly balanced or there will be vibration, it must have a crown or the blade will not track. it doesn't like diesel to get pitch off.

I think a mill made with tires will not have the re-sale value of a mill with metal wheels.

The factory made narrow band mills all use metal bandwheels but one, so you are looking at about 50 to 1 ratio, if tires were so good, you would see more of them being sold.

The hydraulic tensioning allows the blade to be set up to the same tension each time, regardless of difference in blade length. The mills with springs have a calibrated pointer to set the correct tension.

Offline chisel

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2004, 06:42:11 PM »
In another thread I mentioned that I bought some 24" aluminum band wheels with 1 1/2" wide rims. I think if I put some tires on them (from Suffolk, Carter Prod., e.g.), that they'd work ok. The ones from Carter Products are 3/16" thick.

My current plan is to use hydraulic tensioning with these wheels. I'll try to post a side view of the wheel below.

http://www.forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/index.php?image=24inchwheelsideview.jpg

Offline chisel

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2004, 06:44:37 PM »
DanG, this is the second time I've posted a pic and the pic doesn't show up in my post, just the URL.

I followed the steps to posting a pic (thought I did anyway), but I've never seen "the red verbiage on the upper left of the returned screen."

What am I missing?

Offline Rod

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2004, 06:54:48 PM »
I agree with D,I think the steel wheel mills will sale for more money when you resale.

But maybe thats cause they cost more then the trailer tires.But that doesn't mean they are better.I have never heard of anyone who has every had any trouble with using trailer ties for band wheels. also you can buy the bearings at NAPA,and new tires at the tire store,but I have never heard of anyone wearing out a set of tires tho.

I believe the reason the big companies don't use them is cause they can't make enough profit of the idea.

Offline Rod

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2004, 07:10:03 PM »
And for the blade guides juse put 2 bearing side by side on the top and bottom of the blade and 1 on the back with a nut and bold though them.You can get the bearings at NAPA part # ASK VV6300

Offline rbarshaw

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2004, 07:11:23 PM »
 I use tires for my home built mill. I put them on the mill and spun them and made a lathe type setup to cut them to perfect round, then had them balanced. they work very well for me and cost me $10 to balance, i had them laying around. I have many pics here in the " The bandmill that I built " thread.
Been doing so much with so little for so long I can now do anything with nothing, except help from y'all!
By the way rbarshaw is short for Robert Barshaw.
My Second Mill Is Shopbuilt 64HP,37" wheels, still a work in progress.

Offline sawhead

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2004, 11:30:55 AM »
Never having run a small band , My opinion would probably be flawed but on the bandsaws I have ran which have 7' and larger dia. wheels its steel to steel. Very little problem with chunks in the wheels , never had one come off the wheels for sure . I think the tires would be the best and least expensive way to go, I dont forsee all the problems that some ppl seem to see in this setup. I have been sawing and millwrighting on these things for about 28 yrs. and I think (uh oh ! ;D) that most anybody with a little horsesene, and some southern engineering should be able to make the tires work. My $ 0.02
The journey of a thousand miles begins
with a broken fan belt and a leaky tire

Offline Rod

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Offline Bruce_A

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2004, 01:59:46 PM »
Nice tires.

Offline chisel

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2004, 04:38:42 PM »
Good pics Rod. Thanks.

Offline Gipper

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2004, 10:51:03 PM »
Chisel

Been sawing nearly two and one-half years with steel band wheels and had no problems from it.  Only time a band has come off was when tried to back it up without raising the head. ;D ;D  I have 26 in. band wheels, and the blade is tensioned by a spring so I guess there would be "give" to it if something should get under the band on the wheel, but I have never had that happen.  The roller guide on the "out" side of the log/cant has a shield and bottom control that would not let anything through large enough to cause a problem on the band wheel.  I have occasionally not run the drip heavy enough when sawing pine, allowing build-up on the wheel, making the blade move forward a little.  I simply turned up the drip and it cleans the wheels and the blade moves back to where it should run.

Never had any experience with rubber tires/trailer tires, other than my shop band saw, but don't think that is a good comparison to the bandsaw mill.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

Eddie

Offline steveo_1

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Re: Opinion: Band wheel w nothing btw blade and wh
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2004, 11:48:45 PM »
Hey chisel, Gipper, good to see some Ky boys on here,thought i was the only one :D
chisel my wheels are  V-belt style but like gipper said mine has a big spring on it.
I had some chunks get stuck under the belt and the spring started moving in and out badly but didnt hurt the blade, just shut it down cleaned it out and started again.
If you never ran a bandsaw you are welcome to come up and run mine if you want, all i got is a few oaks and some cedar to saw,ill let you saw the cedar ;)
got wood?


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