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Author Topic: Different rate for ERC?  (Read 2407 times)

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Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2014, 10:21:19 AM »
My guess would be something environmental that year, perhaps combined with soil conditions. Do you know the year of the ring, and if so I would check the weather records for that year to see if something correlates, like a super cold, wet, or drought year. Also, what is that area like as far as soil type and depth, hardpans, etc.? ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2014, 10:23:41 AM »
One more thought. Can you see which trees have the defect before they are cut? If so, the fact that only half have the defect is the basis for selecting the good ones to leave during a thinning. :P
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Offline Cedarman

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2014, 01:02:38 PM »
Best thing to do on those sites is a clear cut and let hardwoods that are already growing take over.  The white rings are sometimes 3 to 6 years wide.  Sometimes there are double and triple rings.  Also the wood that does convert to heartwood is light red rather than a darker red.  I haven't been into that area for quite some time.  The next time some cedar comes from that area I will do a count to see if trees started growing at the same time and if the white rings are at the same time.  Could be a weather thing.  Also, I am thinking a grazing and weather thing combined as the different woods were fenced and most likely were depression era pastures.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2014, 04:20:11 PM »
Really interesting. I'm sure part of it is a genetic component. Do you know how deep the soil is there? It would be really interesting to compare the area of heavy defect with the SCS county soils maps.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Offline drobertson

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2014, 07:53:33 PM »
this is most interesting, of the last 20m I've sawn, there has been a blend of near perfect cedar mixed with the fluty, with some rot on the bigger ones.  When I asked about this the loggers said they all came from one track, pretty much the same terrain.  I have always thought that birds actually plant the cedar, so could it be more of a genetic disorder?   david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline ancjr

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2014, 08:07:35 PM »
My very inexperienced, unscientific and anecdotal observations here show some pretty dramatic difference in the flora within litterally feet.  My morel patch is about 20ft wide and curves perfectly along an elevation contour line.  I have smooth bark ERC completely surrounded by included bark examples of similar age, and vice versa.  Not sure that I've seen any white ring examples.  I do know that some here have the deep, almost mahogany red, while others have a very bright pink color when fresh cut.  Haven't really made any investigation or correlation.  When it warms up and I start cutting again, I'll pay more attention.

Offline Magicman

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2014, 08:35:21 PM »
I doubt that ERC is any different from other trees in that there are slight genetic differences and also slightly different soils.  Then there is individual exposure to and resistance from diseases, fungus, and whatever else is out there to affect a tree's growth and health.  I doubt that "forming a committee and making a study" would uncover any preventative action that could monitor enough trees during their ~75 year lifespan to be useful.
 

 
Anyway, not all ERC or any other species for that matter that has defects is all bad.  Here is ERC that had white rings that I sawed.
 

 
But beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and this could be completely ugly and unacceptable to some folks.  To me it made some very nice ceiling.

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Offline ancjr

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2014, 08:53:11 PM »
MM, seeing those examples, I'd have no issue using it indoors either!  :)

Offline Possum Creek

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2014, 09:15:14 PM »
I like the white and red together, with a lot of knots too. I think it gives it more character.         PC

 

Offline Rockn H

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2014, 11:34:26 PM »
  I charge by the board foot for ERC because my rate is a 1000 bf minimum to set up and saw.    In this area most people aren't going to have more than 500 bf of ERC so I come out ok.  If I started to get loads like paulT I may have to reconsider. LOL  ;)

Offline paulT

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2014, 08:06:35 PM »
I bought that load of cedar from a logger that has been hauling it to a chipper.
Several people that don't know I have a mill have asked "what are you gonna do with all that cedar" I just tell them I'm going to build a porch swing and get a laugh. That load weighed in at 28 tons does anybody have a guess at how many board ft it could be ?  I know there's to many variables for anything but a guess.

Offline drobertson

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2014, 08:52:47 PM »
My best guess if sawn out with minimal slab waste, not counting defects, just 1" boards,  and and some (plenty) of 4x4's,  you should recover in the neighbor hood of 4000 bdft. give or take.  david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline okmulch

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2014, 09:06:39 PM »
 

 
This load came into dads (cedarman) the other day.  It Weighed 96000 gross. Some of it has all ready been unloaded. Numerous loads like these have been coming in over the past few weeks. He will have to tell you the footage.
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Offline Cedarman

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2014, 10:09:40 PM »
Ball park figure to use for footage is 11# per board foot.  Your load should scale out at about 5000'.  Actual footage sawn could be about 5500 to 6000'.  This is gross footage sawn which includes low grade lumber with ingrown and some knots with ingrown bark.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Offline shelbycharger400

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2014, 12:40:48 PM »
Field row I'm working on,   farmer told me bout the large vairiation in soil nutrition. As measured for planting crops . Explains for the trees all different sizes,   some have very tight rings some open,   all about same spacing.   O,  and very little sapwood,   seems the bigger ones grew faster and the core wood is less dense? 

Offline LittleJohn

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2014, 04:43:31 PM »
My dad hates sawing white cedar (or locally referred to as swamp cedar); mostly because he only cuts it for me and doesn't make much $$$.  But I make it easy on him, cause all I every need is 4 quarter with preferrably one straight-ish edge.

Used to make cedar swings, lumber used for seat and back.

In regards to weather resistance, parents have a white cedar swing that is 20+ years old and only thing they ever do is reseal the posts that rest on the ground, cause they wick moisture up the end grain something horrible.

Online Tom the Sawyer

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2014, 12:44:57 AM »
Cedarman,

Just curious, is that 11 lbs. per board foot from a reference or from personal experience?  The resources I have been using figure it at around 37 lbs. per cubic foot which would be 5-6 pounds p/bf in the log and 3 lbs. p/bf after milling.
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Offline Cedarman

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2014, 01:22:50 PM »
3# per actual board foot is a good number for ERC lumber.  Dried, it will run a little less.
An 8" x 8' ERC log scales at 19' on the cedar scale, so it should weigh about 209#.
This is a rule of thumb for cedar in our area.  If trees tend to have a lot of taper, then the 11# is low.  If trees are tall, skinny with lots of red, then 11# is high.
For a big truck load of green cedar, it should be a ball park average.
Richard
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.


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