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Author Topic: Tractor selection  (Read 2708 times)

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Offline stihlsawer

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Tractor selection
« on: February 17, 2014, 09:11:56 AM »
I will be considering on a tractor for my Belsaw M14 this Fall or next Winter. I will definitely use a diesel tractor.
I was looking at the International 574 69 HP and 53 HP at the PTO. I have farmed with these in the past and really like these series of Internationals (574, 684, 674, etc.).
I spoke with several old farmers lately (one of them a sawmiller all his life with an old Corley) and they told me that Allis Chalmers always had the "quicker" governors. Would I be better off with a Allis Chalmers 180 or??? I know it has a 6 cylinder diesel versus a 4 diesel.
Whatever I get, powering my M14 will be its primary use, so any suggestions would be great.
Thank you in advance.

Trever
Trever Jones
Stihl 076 Super, 034, MS 260, MS 192T
Dolmar 116si
Corley Edger
GB 44" lumber mill, Mini mill, Beam machine

Online Dave Shepard

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2014, 10:56:48 AM »
I like red tractors. :) I don't think the governor is going to be a problem. I don't know how much power is enough for a Belsaw, but the more you have, the quicker you can saw, within reason. There was a log home place near me that was running a PTO mill with an 806, never wanted for power.
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Offline stihlsawer

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2014, 01:09:22 PM »
806 is a great red beast! i LIKE THE OLD RED TRACTORS MYSELF!! Just wanting to select the right older tractor for my sawmilling. Thank you for replying.

Trever
Trever Jones
Stihl 076 Super, 034, MS 260, MS 192T
Dolmar 116si
Corley Edger
GB 44" lumber mill, Mini mill, Beam machine

Offline Possum Creek

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2014, 05:21:18 PM »
I use a 784 international tractor but I don't like its governor it is a 60 hp, a 80 -100 would be better for me. I would try the tractor first by putting it under some kind of load, that way you could tell how quick it is, because it is hard to saw without a good responsive governor. BTW are you still going to set it up left handed? A tractor would turn the wrong way for a left hand belsaw.

Offline lyle niemi

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2014, 05:24:32 PM »
An old massey 95 might do ya pretty good, theys have lots of lugging power

Offline stihlsawer

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2014, 07:55:09 PM »
I use a 784 international tractor but I don't like its governor it is a 60 hp, a 80 -100 would be better for me. I would try the tractor first by putting it under some kind of load, that way you could tell how quick it is, because it is hard to saw without a good responsive governor. BTW are you still going to set it up left handed? A tractor would turn the wrong way for a left hand belsaw.

I guess I will leave it left handed. I have a jack shaft attached to a tire to change rotation direction. It works out better being left handed due to how I will have it on the property.

I know the previous owner used either a Ford 5000 or 7000; I think it was a 7000.

Is the governor needing rebuilt on yours?

Trever
Trever Jones
Stihl 076 Super, 034, MS 260, MS 192T
Dolmar 116si
Corley Edger
GB 44" lumber mill, Mini mill, Beam machine

Offline stihlsawer

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2014, 07:57:18 PM »
An old massey 95 might do ya pretty good, theys have lots of lugging power

Thank you and what do you think about using a 165, 185, or would you go larger. I have never used a 95.

What do you think about Allis 180, 185, or 190s?
Trever Jones
Stihl 076 Super, 034, MS 260, MS 192T
Dolmar 116si
Corley Edger
GB 44" lumber mill, Mini mill, Beam machine

Offline Knute

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2014, 09:05:42 PM »
Not sure about the 180 or larger, but I have always had Allis and they are very good tractors. My D-17 has a very quick governor.

Online Dave Shepard

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2014, 09:50:01 PM »
The A-C 180, 185 or 190 would probably make a great mill tractor due to the fact that most of them blew up the transmission and don't move anymore. :D
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Offline loggah

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2014, 07:42:55 AM »
The quick answer would be the one with the most horsepower, and parts availability !!! i think the AC tractors would be a bit harder to get parts for then the  IH, i use a industrial 30 Massey-Ferguson on my belsaw which is the same as a 165  drive train,i have a 46" saw and it works fine in softwood. If you saw a bunch of hardwood you will want more then 60 PTO hp. Don
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Online chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2014, 07:58:58 AM »
The A-C 180, 185 or 190 would probably make a great mill tractor due to the fact that most of them blew up the transmission and don't move anymore. :D

Do you have experience with this? I am an Allis man myself and never heard of them blowing up transmissions. Only issue they have is the shift collars wearing and then they want to pop out of 3rd gear (this is caused by operator misuse/abuse). UP here there are dozens and dozens of AC 180-200 tractors still being used daily on the farm.

An AC 180, 185, 190, 190XT, 200, etc with the 301ci diesel have a great motor in them. The AC7000 I have with the 301 has a snappy governor and responds nicely to loads.

Online Dave Shepard

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2014, 08:26:53 AM »
The neighbors had many tractors in the models you mention with tons of transmission problems. I also have a friend that is well experienced in AC that grew up in the CT river valley. Lots of AC out there, and he saw a lot of transmission problems.
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Online chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2014, 08:36:14 AM »
Interesting. My good friend was an Allis dealer until the demise of the orange and the only issues I've ever heard him mention were the worn shift collars, and he sold and serviced thousands of that series tractor. Also a member of a couple of Allis Chalmers forums and I don't think I've ever read of the transmissions "blowing up".

Now with operator abuse (grinding gears, treating it like a power shift, turning up the "smoke screw" etc) any brand can and will break. Goes with the old saying "Some people could break an anvil with a rubber mallet".


Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2014, 09:03:37 AM »
Short history lesson the Ct. river valley in Ma. was farmed predominantly by Polish farmers. The big tractor dealer was Roman R. Skibisky in Sunderland hence the area was stroon with AC. I have used them and found them the full equal to any brand. Stihlguy  all the Belsaws I've seen are rt. hand mills driven from the back with a tractor PTO that gives the proper rotation. Do you mean your tractor is on the same side as the sawyer, that would prove awkward for one man operation as you can't easily get to the cut boards. I have never heard anyone complain about too much HP on a mill. For economy and torque best to stick with diesel, the best and largest you can find. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Online Dave Shepard

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2014, 09:30:49 AM »
The guy I was talking about was from Sunderland.
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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2014, 06:28:48 AM »
Dave, worst transmission I've ever seen was an old Ford selecto-speed the manual automatic with ten forward and two reverse speeds a horror to repair. I ran one with a loader handy but it just begged to be abused. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline Possum Creek

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2014, 08:22:22 PM »
Stihlsawer, have you considered a power unit for your mill? What do you other puttermillers think, what is the best for a sawmill a tractor or a power unit? and why?

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2014, 07:04:52 AM »
Possum, if I had my druthers it would be a Murphy diesel power unit followed closely by Cat or Detroit Diesel. Rotation direction is a consideration, usally power units and tractor PTO's turn opposite directions. Belsaws are right hand mill but driven from the rear so they can use a tractor PTO. You could use a power unit on the sawyers side but it would be in the way for one man operation. Which tractor, the biggest one you have. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline captain_crunch

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2014, 11:56:26 PM »
Be durned how me do it with only Ford 3000 tweaked to 48 hp and can blind saw 24 in logs never needed more hp than that look at my avastar pic
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Tractor selection
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2014, 07:13:27 AM »
That's a big advantage with a Belsaw, their designed to run with minimal HP. Their feed rate is moderate (kinda slow) and the supplied saw has fewer teeth. The carriage is light and requires little power a man can pick it up, a big mill the carriage is about a ton or more. Friends of mine started in the sawmill business with a Belsaw and a large engine, a murphy I believe, they got frustrated with the feed and changed it to feed at gigback speed. The economy of a lighter power plant is OK as long as it doesn't restrict the sawyer. I've always had close to 100 hp diesels and used every bit of it in large oak logs. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece


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