one piece of wood

jmouton · February 17, 2014, 07:52:48 PM

so i got a question,,,,, If a customer wants a 2x6x12 oak board with live edge and we dont have one cut in our pile of lumber air drying, how would you charge for it , and then if you cut it out of a log what would you do with the rest of the log, leave it in a cant , or just cut it out , charge by the board ft or a flat rate or what ,, its not that big of deal , but i get calls like this often enough to figure it out , i just dont want to start to cut up logs and leave them half done if you know what i mean,, and get what there worth , log wise , you know , we dont sell enough lumber to justify cutting the rest of the log into lumber, cuz soon as you do , somebody wants something different,, plus we would rather have room for more logs to cut to customers specs

jim

POSTON WIDEHEAD · February 17, 2014, 08:13:08 PM

What kind of Oak?

If its White Oak, I charge $12.00 for a 2x6x12. The rest of the log would be sawn into 2 inch bed boards for trucks and trailers.

If it's Red Oak, I charge $12.00 for a 2x6x12. The rest of the log would be sawn 1-1/2 inch for table tops.

I get all my Oaks logs for free, so you may want to charge more. I do not like to leave my Oaks in a cant. Saw, stack and sticker the left over.

Brad_S. · February 17, 2014, 08:22:07 PM

For something like that I wouldn't saw it until I received another order that would use the rest if the log.

Ianab · February 17, 2014, 08:22:32 PM

My thought is that once a log is on the mill, you finish sawing it. Cut it into something else that you know you can sell in the near future. You charge a premium for the "custom" sawn product, not a "rip-off" rate, but a bit extra to make up for the extra messing about, and having to sit on the rest of the log, or maybe sell it at a discount. But at least once it's sawn and on the drying stack it's relatively "safe".

Otherwise you have double handling, or the rest of the log degrading (cracking or warping) before you get back to it.

Another thing you can try is an "upsell". He can buy a whole log run, sawn to his exact requirements, for the standard rates. For a guy looking to make a project, having all the wood from the same log can be a real bonus.

Ian

beenthere · February 17, 2014, 08:34:06 PM

Quotea 2x6x12 oak board with live edge

Free of pith? How close to pith center if free of pith?

Let the customer decide if he wants to purchase the log that has his 2 x 12 in it.
Then he/she can decide if they want the remaining wood in certain sizes or leave it for you to use as you wish.

I see no need to sell one board from one log.. ( and agree with Ian...

)

drobertson · February 17, 2014, 08:36:51 PM

This happens quite often, I price them on grade and urgency. Most often its' not that urgent, meaning they want a good deal, this said, a log is sawn, and waiting for a sale on the rest. It often works out that the remainder is sold, but not always. For one board, with this requirement, it's $2 bucks/bdft. off the mill, cheap in my opinion.
david

red oaks lumber · February 17, 2014, 08:45:00 PM

we saw alot of 1x6 oak so for me to cut i odd peice isn't a big deal. when its a speicality peice like that i wouldn't think twice to charge $50 bucks. if they buy it fine if not no big deal either

POSTON WIDEHEAD · February 17, 2014, 08:49:45 PM

Quote from: red oaks lumber on February 17, 2014, 08:45:00 PM
we saw alot of 1x6 oak so for me to cut i odd peice isn't a big deal. when its a speicality peice like that i wouldn't think twice to charge $50 bucks. if they buy it fine if not no big deal either

This is a very good point. Having to hold up another job or even stopping in the middle of a job to go fetch just 1 special log, for 1 special board certainly falls within the $50.00 minimum requirement.

drobertson · February 17, 2014, 09:00:26 PM

It really depends on how much oak is sawn, 50 bucks is exorbitant. Unless no sawing is being done before and after. There is no reason to rape anyone for a chunk of wood when this is what we do, but then again, some folks have no qualms on ripping folks off. Seen this all too often. It all depend on what is priced and agreed on,
david

jmouton · February 17, 2014, 09:02:35 PM

well at least it gives me some ideas on what to do and charge ,,

jim

POSTON WIDEHEAD · February 17, 2014, 09:05:01 PM

I've always said.....
take a certain size cant.....stand it up and you have a post: 1 price
Saw it in to boards: Another price
Lay it horizontal and call it a Mantle: $300.00 :D

drobertson · February 17, 2014, 09:10:53 PM

I hear ya! poston, the luxury of location I suppose, won't fly out here, wish it would, economics in northern SC must be pretty good! david

ellmoe · February 17, 2014, 09:12:28 PM

I don't see where anyone is "ripping someone off" in this scenario. To stop production and hunt for a certain size log and wait on a customer for a 12bf sale is expensive for anyone making a living to do. Who takes the loss on the rest of the log if it degrades before it can be sawn. What if the customer decides that he doesn't like that particular board? It's a risk /reward proposition. If it is a "hobby" mill that's a different story. Also, a customer can always decline if they don't like the price.

drobertson · February 17, 2014, 09:21:55 PM

I may have forgot to say, communication? and to randomly charge 50 bucks for a 2x6 live edge is in fact excessive. These types of jobs are worked in as any are. And to set the record straight, as far as I'm concerned, a log that would produce this end product would cost around 17 bucks if that. Now if they are free, well, nuff said, I will end my commentary with an apology to Poston for ripping anyone off, in that one can only be ripped off in buying boards if only they so desire, integrity is what it is, what we do when no one is looking, david

POSTON WIDEHEAD · February 17, 2014, 09:26:03 PM

:D :D :D You know I joke about a lot of stuff David......however reply #1 is exactly what I would do.

Brucer · February 17, 2014, 11:34:01 PM

The value of anything is determined by the customer.

What you need to do is figure out what it costs you to make the product.
- Does the customer need it now, or later?
- Can you do something useful with the remainder of the log?
- Can you make the remainder into something that you can store and resaw later?
- What are your expenses for making the product?
- How much time will it take you, and how much is your time worth?
- Is this a one-off item, or might the customer want more later?
- Don't forget to add a reserve in case things go wrong.

Once you have figured out your costs, present them to the customer. It's up to the customer to decide if the price matches his/her perception of the value. Just remember, if your price is too high for the customer, don't start to bargain. That just tells the customer you were planning to overcharge. It's not a good way to build trust.

Small Slick · February 17, 2014, 11:55:52 PM

Brucer is right. The value of something is solely based on the customer. The last time I checked a piece of anything, be it wood or real estate gets sold to the highest bidder.

Rape? Really?

I'm sorry but many of you are in business to make a profit right? If your prices are too high your customers will go some place else for their "one custom piece of live edge wood that they will only buy one of and never come back for again". Did I mention they probably called 2-3 times and pulled you away from your scheduled work and asked you to stay late so they could get 1 board on their time frame?

If $50 is too high then they can go to Menards and get that board. By the way a 1x12x16' red oak board at Menards in Wisconsin is $77 and change.

I have heard many of you talk about basing what you charge on what you need to cover your individual costs. What ever happened to actually making a profit as well? In my opinion integrity is being able to look my wife in the eye an know I did my best to make a comfortable living for her and our child. I don't do my job just to be a martyr.
John

Ianab · February 18, 2014, 01:40:23 AM

QuoteI have heard many of you talk about basing what you charge on what you need to cover your individual costs. What ever happened to actually making a profit as well?

You still need to know your individual costs, THEN add on however much profit you need to make. This is your bottom line. If you can sell for a bit more, because the market will bear it, then that's fair enough. Make a bit of extra cream to make up for the other jobs that don't quite go as planned. But you don't want to be selling below that line. Without knowing the cost of any item you produce, how do you know you are actually making a profit?

You may be selling our example board for $12. Now that's probably fine if it's costing $6 to produce (Totalling ALL the expenses, not just the obvious ones, but those other sneaky ones like taxes, insurance, advertising etc.) But what say when you added all those up, it's costing you $13 to actually produce this board? Either the market needs to be able to pay more, or if it wont, then you need to either reduce your costs, or get out of that product. Otherwise, the more you sell, the more you loose.

On the issue of single board sales. Yes they can be a time waster, but that's always an issue in retail. But if you won't sell a single board, then you are more of a wholesale operation, and you can have a minimum order value. Just depends how you market yourself. If you are selling retail, you need to charge more to account for the extra time it's going to take.

Ian

red oaks lumber · February 18, 2014, 08:06:38 AM

to set the record straight, i dont rip people off ;) when a customer comes to the shop to "order" wood, we talk , i show samples, they discuss, i give them a price, they either order then or need to "discuss" further. this time spent is already min. half hour, closer to 45 mins. when the job is complete, they come pay, pickup, talk some more, maybe 15 min. total time spent on that job 1 hour. the sawdust hasn't even flew yet. my shop rate is $60 / hr. so, you can see without even cutting a peice i'm losing money(not really) but, its 1 hour i would be working on a job that pays.
paperwork for this 1 peice has to get to the saw, even if i'm the one sawing it. some time is spent deciding how to best cut that 1 peice from the log. you kinda get the picture here why $50 bucks dosent seem so high

WellandportRob · February 18, 2014, 08:33:34 AM

For a custom cut board like that with a live edge I charge double my regular price for that species of wood. White Oak normal price $1.50 bdf custom live edge $3.00 bdf. I have never had a problem with my rates. Generally the customer is appreciative that I would take the time to cut him a single board.

Fedge · February 18, 2014, 08:38:17 AM

I can look at this from both sides. My primary livelihood is making log furniture but I also own a sawmill. I regularly purchase logs, fell my own logs, and ocassionally purchase lumber and slabs. I really wouldn't have a problem paying $50 for that piece if I needed it. I understand that its a special piece. Menards or Home Depot don't have that in the wood rack. From the sawing side, I know that it hurts to pay that much for something that my raw material cost would be about $8. I can't possibly see charging someone less than $1 bd/ft for green oak stock. $12 seems way low to me. If you were closer, I would be one of your best customers.

Geoff

DanG · February 18, 2014, 12:03:33 PM

On the question of what to do with the rest of the log; I have piles of rotten logs that I was "saving" because I wasn't confident of my ability to predict my market. On the other hand, my lumber shed is empty because I sold all of what I did cut and stack before I quit sawing. Saw the log into whatever kind of lumber it wants to be and enjoy the luxury of doing that.

Peter Drouin · February 18, 2014, 12:33:49 PM

I run into that all the time, the customer wants w oak decking I all ways have wood left over. Or a piece of R oak for something.
I cut all of it into grade stakes, bundle them in a pack of 10 and put them on a pallet. :D ;D