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Author Topic: New guy with a Belsaw M14  (Read 4850 times)

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Offline Chop Shop

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New guy with a Belsaw M14
« on: March 10, 2014, 03:19:35 PM »
Hello,
Ive been reading your forum as a guest for some time now. 

I have been playing with an old chainsaw mill for awhile now.  That can only lead to one thing, another, bigger saw!

So after looking for awhile, I found an old Belsaw out in northern Idaho.  It has almost no use but the structure was in bad shape.   So we tore it apart and left all the wood there and brought home all the steel parts and reassembled it on a 30 foot trailer frame.  It came with a fixed tooth 36 blade and a 40 inch inserted tooth blade.

Im a pretty good fabricator and mechanic.  I have been running two stroke bikes and saws my whole life.
I also have a chainsaw problem.  I cant find regular meetings tho!!

I have collected a bit of parts while assembling my mill.  Some I can use, some I cant and some I dont know how to use!


So I came here for setup help with my mill

and

Help IDing some stuff that I can use and maybe I can find a better home for the extras where the stuff is needed.


I look forward to meeting some of you.   I am in the PNW by Mt Rainier


Thanks the chance, Brad

Offline nk14zp

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2014, 03:37:47 PM »
Welcome fellow Belsaw owner.
Belsaw 36/18 duplex mill.
Belsaw 802 edger.
http://belsawsawmills.freeforums.org/

Offline steamsawyer

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2014, 03:40:47 PM »
Hey Chop Shop,

Welcome aboard. It's always nice to hear about another circular mill coming back to life. We will look forward to hearing more about your project, and we all really like pictures.

Alan
J. A. Vance circular sawmill, 52" blade, powered by a 70 HP 9 1/2 x 10 James Leffel portable steam engine.

Inside this tired old mans body is just a little boy that wants to go out and play.

Great minds think alike.....  Does your butt itch too?

Alan Rudd
Steam Punk Extraordinaire.

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2014, 08:35:14 PM »
Welcome Brad, theirs a lot on the internet on Belsaw mills. If you post pictures of unknown pieces we have a lot of belsawyers here. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline Chop Shop

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2014, 08:45:30 PM »
Thanks guys!

I will start another thread.  I think I have a handle on the mill parts so far, but my knowledge of circular sawblades needs some work!

I have collected a handful of inserted tooth blades that range from 36" to 56" and many different kinds of teeth.

My goal is to learn what each kind (teeth, shanks, count) will do for for what kind of sawing.  Then decide what I would use and maybe find a value and a home for some of the other blades I have.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2014, 08:53:00 PM »
Chop Shop,welcome to the forum.
  I also have a chainsaw problem.  I cant find regular meetings tho!!
Hello,my name is Ray. The FF has a board for that too. We are always open here.  ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline shelbycharger400

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2014, 09:00:55 PM »
<still working on setting up my belsaw

From what they say the arbor on the belsaw is only good to 50 hp.  Also somewhere I read do NOT run a 52 in blade on it, shaft will flex.

Offline Possum Creek

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2014, 09:27:28 PM »
Welcome friend, it is nice to have another belsaw owner here. Belsaws are pretty a basic mill and great for a 1 man operation. I like sawing cross ties with mine.                               PC

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2014, 09:29:19 PM »
Brad what are you planning to power your mill with.?? Be aware of rotation, a tractor PTO behind the mill is proper rotation. Most power units if behind the mill will have the wrong rotation. As brother Shelby says don't go too big on a saw, myself I wouldn't go over 46". Some fellas here use bigger but you only have 1 3/4" shaft, better to be conservative. The shanks that hold in the bits will have a letter or number stamped on them, couldn't really tell from your picture. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Online Magicman

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2014, 10:12:40 PM »
Hello Brad, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline Chop Shop

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2014, 11:51:06 PM »
Brad what are you planning to power your mill with.?? Be aware of rotation, a tractor PTO behind the mill is proper rotation. Most power units if behind the mill will have the wrong rotation. As brother Shelby says don't go too big on a saw, myself I wouldn't go over 46". Some fellas here use bigger but you only have 1 3/4" shaft, better to be conservative. The shanks that hold in the bits will have a letter or number stamped on them, couldn't really tell from your picture. Frank C.

Power.  Yes that is a loaded question.  Im fairly good at finding useful junk.  Im fairly cheap.  I like old stuff.  I have a tractor.


So here is my problem/choices,,,,,,,

Use my little 26hp gasser tractors PTO and make things real simple.   But I worry about being to low on power.  Also makes it hard to use the tractor while powering mill.

Or get a cheap and easy domestic 50s-80s 6 cylinder engine and use a rear axle or belt system to reverse the direction and dial in the speed.

Or use the duetz diesel air cooled 6 cylinder I have.  I think it will to loud and overpowered.  I think it could be used/saved to run a bigger mill (ya know cuz everybody has to upgrade someday!)


???????????  I just dont know what to do.      Anyone run a belsaw with low power, like 30HP?   

I will be sawing mostly WRC/Cedar and dougfir.

Offline iwiegian

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2014, 12:38:07 AM »
Welcome chop shop. Also a new Belsaw owner here and waiting for frost to go out to set it up.  I have heard of the blade size limit but the horse power limit is a new one to me. There are many m-14 saws running on YouTube with fairly powerful engines. The low end I think I have read somewhere at around 35 HP.  I will be running mine with a d-17 allis chalmers at about 56 HP. Good luck with your project.  Dave

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2014, 07:33:59 AM »
Chopper, sawmill and too much power are words seldom seen togather. Use the diesel if it has a good governor that will hold your hammered saw speed. I fear your tractor at 26 hp is a little light and would be better used as support equipment. If the Duetz is really over powered let it loaf along at 1800 and use pulleys and belts to get your proper speed. Most saws used on Bsaws were hammered around 540 PTO speed. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline stoverguy

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2014, 11:01:43 AM »
I'm running a small diesel tractor with 23HP on the PTO. It struggles with hard woods but the Cedar is a breeze. (and my favorite to cut) I'm in the northwest as well, I set my Belsaw up last winter and run a 40" blade. Belsaws were advertised for 20 to 40 hp but who cares, go with whatever you have. If you were trying to make $ with it a dedicated engine makes sence but I seldom have enough logs stored up to make it worth while. A cold deck can store more than I cut on average anyway, so using the tractor to load logs, run the mill, and move the lumber keeps me plenty busy especially working by myself. I did something similar, just hauled home the basic mill leaving the wood behind. I set mine up on 6" channel (because I had it) but a lot of guys like mobile home frames if you can find one. Very simple rigs, if you are even halfways decent at fabrication you can make just about anything you will need. Research this forum using the search function about "Belsaw" tons of info and pictures of other members, I learned plenty I didn't know and I had actually been around a Belsaw in the past.

Offline Dave_

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2014, 11:44:02 AM »
I'm with Frank on the horsepower question.  You will only use what you use.  I ran my Belsaw with a 140 horse Perkins.  The weak link in my setup was power transmission.  I was running a flat belt and was very limited on how much h.p. got to the saw.  If you use belts, they will fail if you get in a big bind.  If you go direct, your shear pin will fail.  Extra horsepower is NOT a negative!  Going from softwood to hardwood will make the point real clear.  Having adequate h.p. will keep your feed speed consistent and overall make for better cutting.  The real issue with excess horsepower is fuel consumption.  The bigger the engine, the thirstier the beast :)

Offline shelbycharger400

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2014, 12:41:44 PM »
If your light on hp,  add rotating mass.   It will stay spooled up better.   Ie heavy flywheels and counter weights

Offline Chop Shop

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2014, 01:53:07 PM »
The fuel consumption and noise of an air cooled diesel is what worries me.

The deutz has a large hydro pump already attached to it.   I think it would work great as a power plant but think it would be a waste.   I would like to see it run a larger mill someday hopefully.

I have access to a smaller JohnDeere 4 cyl diesel commercial mower too.  It sounds similar to some of you guys using combines?



If this is like my other hobbies, then this belsaw is just going to be the "gateway mill" that leads to harder more expensive mills!

Offline nk14zp

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2014, 01:58:34 PM »
Mine had a Mopar 440 on it before I got it.
Belsaw 36/18 duplex mill.
Belsaw 802 edger.
http://belsawsawmills.freeforums.org/

Offline shelbycharger400

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2014, 07:54:39 PM »
nk14zp...    a big ol thermoquad with headers on that 440 ??


I think it would be OVERKILL if I run my belsaw with my 400... lol  I took it mild, 8.5 to 1 compression to run 92 octane,  a slight massage camshaft LOL 344 duration, .510 lift, 104 centerline (in that range)   452 heads with single plane intake with the green shaft thermoquad , having bigger butterflies, the second rings in the primarys removed and accelerator pump drilled out.. should flow around 900-950 cfm.    .

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2014, 08:01:51 PM »
Welcome to the Forum Chop Shop!

shelbycharger, your carriage is going to be going so fast it's going to need a parachute and an extra 1/4 mile to slow down. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"Logrite!


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