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Author Topic: learning to saw  (Read 2804 times)

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Offline edgerman24

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learning to saw
« on: March 28, 2014, 09:34:26 AM »
Learning to headsaw with a 60 circular saw only problem is need to sharpen up on my math any tips
Sawmillers make the best studs

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2014, 09:52:16 AM »
print out cheat sheets on paper, put them on a clipboard and keep that clipboard next to you where you can quickly look at it to see where you should set the saw blade to make the cut.

Plan your last cut first, then work your way back to the first cut, so that when you start you'll be able to follow the steps to get to where you want to be to finish the intended piece of lumber.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2014, 10:15:59 AM »
edgerman24,welcome to the forum. Just get this mill? Jim's cheat sheet will be second nature after a while.
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Offline edgerman24

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2014, 10:56:09 AM »
No I work in the edger hole so I see the dial all day I understand the counting but I'm lost after the first cut and flip of the log
Sawmillers make the best studs

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2014, 10:59:33 AM »
Cheat sheet is the way to go.  I used cheat sheets whenever I got in to unusual sizes and when I first started out.  But, after we got computerized, that did all the math for you. 

To make a cheat sheet, you need to start out with a target size.  To the target size, you need to add the thickness of your board plus the kerf of your saw.  That will give you a series of starting points.  It works best if you're cutting all the same sized boards to a target size.

If you're cutting a bunch of different thicknesses and they depend on grade, then you don't need the math until you get down to your target size.  You'll start with an opening face, then adjust your thickness to accommodate the grade.  Then you size up your cant when you get close to the target and can't pull anymore boards. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline edgerman24

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2014, 11:17:25 AM »
We cut oak mainly and 6x9 7x9 6x8 and 4x6 as well as a crap load of lumber between 2 mills some explain how you get you next number say your diameter is 18 your making a 7x9 "tie" how do you start and finish being that I'm close to the sawyer I always know my last numbers are 10 8.5. 7 boom there's my tie lol but like said my problem is getting my next number after my first cut and my face bare with me I'm learning
Sawmillers make the best studs

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2014, 11:40:39 AM »
I can create a cheat sheet scale for you, but it's better if you create your own so that you start understanding the numbers. And as mentioned you will soon remember them.

Here is a picture of one of mine:



What you do is put the finish number at the top.
Like 7" or 9" and then add on the thickness of the saw blade and kerf.

this will tell you where the next cut is. Then keep adding up until you get to some high number.
I usually run my scales up to 36" as that's the largest log that I would ever put on my mill.

So when you have the log on the carriage and you have it in the correct spot so that they pith will be in the center on both ends of you tie (if you care) or not I don't know if you do so you'll need to let us know. You bring the saw up to the blade so that you can see how wide it is and then look at the first number lower than the width that will give you the opening face you want.
No need to cut a 2" opening face if you want a 6" opening face first. Depends on your slab situation. Do you want heavy slabs or small light slabs? I don't need an answer I'm just saying, it depends.

Jim Rogers
PM me if you want me to make a scale. I'll need to know several things like, kerf target sizes and board thicknesses wanted. 
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Offline Magicman

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2014, 01:33:54 PM »
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, edgerman24.   8)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2014, 05:12:35 PM »
I usually have a target size of 7 1/8" for my tie.  They like them a little heavy.  If I'm cutting 4/4 lumber, each board is 1 1/8".  I also have to add 1/4" for my saw kerf on a circle mill.  So, for each board I want, I have to add 1 3/8" to my target size.  Your cheat sheet would look like this:

7 1/8", 8 1/2", 9 7/8", 11 1/4", 12 5/8", 14", 15 3/8", 16 3/4", 17 1/8", 18 1/2".  Each number is 1 3/8" stronger than the previous one.

You can start your cut at any one of these numbers and you will be able to saw down to a 7 1/8" target.  If you want a 9 1/8' target, just add 2" to all your cheat numbers.

If you are looking to cut 5/4 lumber, then you would be adding 1 5/8" to each number of the target.

After you learn your numbers, it'll come second nature.  There are other things that you can do, depending on the product you're making.  But, if you're learning how to saw, I won't go into detail, as it will only lead to confusion.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline edgerman24

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2014, 06:31:49 PM »
So for instance let me take a crack at this I roll my log on the carriage get a look at it my dial is reading 15in so I roll my carriage up to the saw and bring my head blocks up to 14.5 there's my slab back up take it to 13 there's my board I run my carriage back to the log turner flip it over to where faced side is against the head blocks and that's where I loose myself is when I rotate the log o either add way to much and get way to high of a number or subtract ?? Also our limber is 1 1/8 with a 1/4 kerf the dial is 33 and moves 1 1/2 once you press your set button
Sawmillers make the best studs

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2014, 07:41:12 PM »
You're looking at it wrong.  If you have a round side against the headblocks, your starting point isn't important, as far as a number goes.  You roll the log onto the carriage, set your tapers to center the heart, then you take a cut.  You then cut the boards you want until the grade runs out.

Then you turn your log.  There are 2 ways to saw the log.  Either move the flat side down 1/4 turn on the headblock or 1/2 turn to the knees.  If you only turn 1/4 turn, then you saw the same as your above.  The numbers don't matter.  When you have a flat side against the knees, then you use the numbers.  In my cheat sheet, you might start at 11 1/4", pull 3 boards and you're down to 7".  If you started at 10 1/4", then you would end up at 6". 

That's the basic way to breakdown a log to lumber.  If you're sawing grade, you should have a basic knowledge of lumber grade.  If you're edging lumber, you should have learned it by now.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline edgerman24

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2014, 08:00:51 PM »
My grade is is profficent I'd say I take the maximum width for each board sawn and I always watch my logsl that's being sawn to determine the grade of lumber and tie before it cones to me and always I pay close attention to my lumber man to ensure its going to the right places I understand my the diffferences bettwen species of timber grade just math .....not so well
Sawmillers make the best studs

Offline dgdrls

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2014, 08:41:20 PM »
Practice, and measure

Layout a cut sequence on the butt of a log
and saw it out,  watch your scale as you advance to the next cut.
repeat,.....often ;)

you will get it just takes a little time.

best
DGDrls

Offline edgerman24

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2014, 11:30:18 PM »
Thank DG for the advice I've actually considered this being that there are several stumllps throughout my yard where I have cleared some land back out of my woods ... I really appreciate the advice from everyone seems helpful. Just finally getting to see my dream as a head Sawyer come to life very slowly my sawyer once told me said there no learning it in one day or week they key was to ask question watch and learn and to just get up there when the chance is there and grab a little bit of seat time ...lol hard to keep up with a carriage when your edging for a man who has been sawing for 40+ years ...guess this is where my biggest part if learning would take place is in the edger hole hehe
Sawmillers make the best studs

Offline backwoods sawyer

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2014, 12:39:19 AM »
Patients, before long you will have them both down.
I have a sawyer in training that has picked it right up. She had never been around a sawmill but had spent many years working with agricultural processing equipment. Just donít over think it, and watch the steps before long you will be predicting his next cut. And use the cheat sheet ;D
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2014, 04:54:59 AM »
I trained a guy in sawing in a short amount of time.  I gave him the cheat sheet and showed him how to figure them up on his own.  He picked if up in a matter of time after he understood the process.  But, he wasn't sawing for grade.  We were making dimension stock out of big logs and had a vertical edger. 

Sawing grade takes time to understand how to read a log.  There were times when I had a cutting order of 8/4 F1F & btr, 5/4 F1F & btr, and 4/4 with sorts of pallet, casket, flooring, 2 Com & btr.  Target sizes were for ties and pallet cants of 3Ĺx6.  For the heavier grades, you don't want to pull into a 2 Com back, as that will give you a drop in dollar yield.  You have to identify that in your current face.  Eventually, you'll be able to see the defects as they develop in a log.  There are also times that its better to leave some grade on the cant and pull a tie instead of sawing to a pallet cant.  That takes time.

Get seat time when you can.  You'll also find that you have to be able to control feed rates and learn how to sharpen your saw.  Its not just a matter of math and pulling a lever.  You have to control how fast you feed through knots and big wood.  Each species has different sawing characteristics.  Lots of things to watch, listen to, and figure out product.  All at the same time and keep a rhythm that keeps production levels up.  You won't learn it overnight and it will come in stages.  I found that I kept learning all through my sawing career.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2014, 08:13:35 AM »
 
  I found that I kept learning all through my sawing career.



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Offline edgerman24

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2014, 10:58:24 AM »
They sure do say patience is a virtue and its funny I had never been around a sawmill till late 2009 I spent alot of time around agricultural equipment and my grandfather had a cotton gin...my Sawyer lol folks here in mosspuro say he I a legend on these hills 40+ years of sawing and man is fast !! He also hammers his saw instead of sending them off to a saw shop. He takes time out of his day and explains to me what the saw is doing tension wise and why he needs it ..I change teeth sharepn the saw stretch holders straighten teeth and sometimes adjust the guides ...I defiantly grew a passion for it and have nothing but complete interest on continuing my learning    I know this is a hint off subject but this last September my boss had purchased us a new BH Pane 60" 6-7g saw thick saw means wider teeth correct?? So our saw repair man is fascinated that we run F8 holders with 9/16 bits well this saw was was a week old sawed through a railroad spike broke maybe 5 teeth ...I know weeeird....changed the teeth didn't even think Nor did he to check the backs in the saw we fired up sawe a monster red oak a good sized hickory and then a 13 inch oak I'd say and on the last 8.5 cut going to 7 the saw made a deadly turn onward sawed through the headblock and crashed !!!! Broke a massive piece from the rim to the colladr and ripped every tooth and back out pretty crazy I lived !!
Sawmillers make the best studs

Offline steamsawyer

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2014, 03:16:05 PM »
Hey edgerman,

BH Payne is a nice company to deal with, they sold me a new 52" saw a couple years ago. I doubt that Terry will cover that under warranty though.

When I started, I had to use the cheat sheet process like Jim and Ron are talking about. Keeping a clipboard on the post right by me.

Alan

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Inside this tired old mans body is just a little boy that wants to go out and play.

Great minds think alike.....  Does your butt itch too?

Alan Rudd
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Offline edgerman24

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Re: learning to saw
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2014, 04:47:24 PM »
Steamsawyer wasn't downing the make of the saw at all very good saws just operator failure lol :new_year:
Sawmillers make the best studs


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