Very poor design!!

cutter88 · July 24, 2014, 09:52:35 AM

Anyone else running a cat tracked skid steer around the 2004 mark, we have one and are having horrible issues with the undercarriage it's constantly braking wheeles, loosing wheeles...

beenthere · July 24, 2014, 01:42:26 PM

which wheels are breaking?

and which wheels are you losing?

Seems you should have a clue, other than say poor design, as to what is causing wheels to break and come off. What might it be?

Offthebeatenpath · July 24, 2014, 03:00:53 PM

What model Cat? Does it have the ASV undercarriage? I know many of them that age do. I have a 2004 ASV tracked skid steer and I've had great luck with mine overall. Just replaced the front and back idlers after over 2000 hours, the rest of the bogie wheels are original.

cutter88 · July 24, 2014, 04:29:32 PM

Yes ASV undercarriage and usually breaks the back or front wheeles middles ones are fine! The cat guys say there just not built for rough terrain... Keeps breaking we're sir clip fits in to hold rear seal in the wheele then tge wheele is garbage

Offthebeatenpath · July 24, 2014, 05:32:06 PM

Which model? I have the 60 hsp ASV which is the biggest one that still has an independently suspended undercarriage. The bigger models tie all the bogies with a rigid plate which might put more pressure on the front and rear idler wheels. That could be a major difference. That said, I've used mine almost exclusively in rough terrain- was moving gravel over slash piles up a mountain with it this week for instance. I pulled logs for two winters with it- the design seems great to me. They have made very few innovations since 2004 which should say something.

You can buy aftermarket aluminum wheels that shouldn't break. I've heard that they don't do as well in the snow though. Some say they wear the track more too. I have some extra bearings and some beat up wheels (10" and 14") for cheap if you're interested.

br389 · July 24, 2014, 08:52:39 PM

The construction company I used to work for had a cat 257 and a 277 and we always were replacing the 257 under carriage it was usually the front wheels that fell apart.. But cats new under carriage is way better

redprospector · July 25, 2014, 01:31:29 AM

I don't care much for the ASV undercarriage. I had an old ASV 4810 that I wound up working on more than working with it. I then bought a Terex (ASV) PT100G, Terex took it back after 5 months.
I've got a Bobcat T320 now, and we're both happy.

cutter88 · July 25, 2014, 06:09:53 AM

Yes iv herd cat has came a long way in the past couple years with there undercarriage... My good friend is cats mobile service tech in our area and he tells me the ASV in my 247 is ok for carrying buckets of gravel around and such but we have a log grapple and carry full clams of logs around the landing he says that style of undercarriage won't hold up so we will sell it soon and go a different rout, I like the new holland track skid steer seems like a well built machine to me :)

BargeMonkey · July 25, 2014, 07:10:40 AM

Ive got a CL-175 NH and its been a great machine, not the hottest in the snow but a good machine.

dnash · July 25, 2014, 07:30:05 AM

Why not a Deere? You already have a couple...why not another to make a set?

BargeMonkey · July 25, 2014, 07:48:26 AM

Quote from: dnash on July 25, 2014, 07:30:05 AM
Why not a Deere? You already have a couple...why not another to make a set?

Ive heard alot of problems with the deere's -last 5-6 year model machines- cooler problems, electrical issues, our salesman @ nortrax was hesitant when we questioned him when we went to buy a new track machine 2yrs ago. I would do my homework. Friend of mine has a kubota and hes had alot of trouble, keeps blowing couplers, valves.

dnash · July 25, 2014, 11:51:35 AM

We've had a used ct322 for the last year and no troubles so far. I'm sure that all machines have their quirks.

cutter88 · July 25, 2014, 12:53:44 PM

Yes iv herd deere don't make a very good skid steer, my first on was new holland and it was greay

barbender · July 25, 2014, 11:07:33 PM

The great track loader debates :D Any CTL's that are not Cat or Terex, that I'm aware of, use a rigid dozer style undercarriage. I think Case and NH share the same undercarriage, Deere's is similar. Takeuchi has the same style as well. I have a fair number of hours in a Cat 287 that had an ASV undercarriage (it's a 287, not a 287B- it was a prototype, the first one they produced) and a Case CT450. The Cat was definitely easier on the body, and the ASV undercarriage, for all of it's faults, is superior in terms of traction and flotation. I'd like the chance to try a Cat with the new undercarriage (they make 2 models of most machines, well 3 if you count the rubber tire version- one with a Terex/ASV u/c and one with the Cat u/c. The Cat version looks like a hybrid, halfway between the ASV and the rigid frame versions. I see a lot of the local construction companies are going to Cats with the Cat u/c, it looks more durable. I think any of them are going to be prone to failure in a logging environment, those rubber tracks like to come apart in chunks if you don't give them proper consideration.

BargeMonkey · July 26, 2014, 12:02:53 AM

We only have 2 rubber track machines, a CL-175 and a 121-3 kubota and as long as you can keep the tracks away from the rock your ok, we have cut 1 track so far on the mini. I dont care which brand you chose they all have downfalls. Have you thought about getting a rubber tired machine, with airless tires and adding tracks ? I know a guy with a brush mower who went for that set up after the tracks kept failing due to the stumps and small brush poking holes in the tracks.

redprospector · July 26, 2014, 12:33:18 AM

I've only got 1 rubber tracked machine, the Bobcat T320. Yep, it's a rigid frame undercarriage. Yep, the Terex/ASV has a much better ride. Yep, the Terex/ASV machines probably get a little better traction due to the "suspension" of the bogie wheels....But, while the Terex/ASV owner is busy replacing plastic idler, and bogie wheels, and putting new seals and bearings in the axle tubes, I'll still be working trying to make money with my rigid frame undercarriage.
I live in the Southernmost part of the Rocky Mountains. They don't call them the Rocky Mountains for nothing either. It doesn't mater what kind of consideration you give your tracks here, they will get eaten up in the log woods. It's just a cost of operation that can't be avoided.
I'm sure that the ASV undercarriage is fine in areas that aren't quite so unforgiving, but for me, they just don't hold up to working in the woods.

barbender · July 26, 2014, 04:19:59 PM

Redprospector, I don't even like giving the ASV undercarriage credit for the superior traction/flotation and ride, because they are so mainainence intensive. They are really a modified snowmobile suspension, that's where the idea originated I think. I'd never want one for brush mowing or forestry work, but for laying out slopes and dressing up topsoil and what, they are really much better. I guess my point is that if I was landscaping or doing slab prep, I'd want one, but that's about it. And it would be a Cat machine with the ASV u/c. That's why I'd like to try one of Cat's u/c, I could ride around Terex altogether ;) Bargemonkey, I have always had problems with steel OTT tracks having the tires spin inside the tracks in greasy conditions, and snow, forget it. That's with Grouser brand tracks, if that could be remedied I would leave my tracks on my Case 1845C year round.

BEEMERS · July 26, 2014, 06:05:25 PM

Ive been running the ASV machine for years and I cant say enough good about them.I have the 50 and the 100.I don't run them too hard as I always have something bigger to bring to the job if it takes too long .we.ve rebuilt some bogies on the big one and lost a bearing on the small one..but other than that trouble free.
I think these undercarriages are going to be costly and require replacement of parts over time. because they are size like a skidsteer..bucket like a skidsteer..cab like a skidsteer..You plan on undercarriage upkeep/wear like four tires on a skidsteer...that's wont work.
Its actually a bulldozer undercarriage but made of parts and components not built like a bulldozer..and wont hold up under tough conditions like a dozer...and we all except the cost and high maintenance of a dozer undercarriage..but not in a little bulldozer with lighter components and rubber tracks...where am I going with this? sorry bout the rant guys..
All the CTL's..Compact track loaders..not Cut To Length ...are going to be costly in the undercarriage over time some less than others.But What they will do in the right application amazes me everyday!

OH logger · July 26, 2014, 06:10:49 PM

are the rubber tracks that go over the tires any better than the steel ones???

barbender · July 26, 2014, 08:37:40 PM

BEEMERS, you're spot on. For instance, try working in washed sand with a rubber tire and sink it, come in with a ctl and you don't even notice. They are certainly more capable. I know cutter88 is just using what he has, but I think the hourly u/c cost of those machines is too high to pile wood on the landing with- I use my Case 1845 with the tires chained up, and it works good.

BEEMERS · July 27, 2014, 04:35:48 PM

I was just flipping through the Michigan auto swapper,or something like that..its a free monthly...they have a heavy truck and equipment section..there is a Bobcat track loader in there for sale advertised as having the forestry package and it had STEEL tracks. I think it maybe a 270? Im not familiar with the Bobcats.
Maybe this is something to look into.At least Bobcat makes them with steel maybe other brands do to.Maybe you can purchase steel tracks for a track loader with rubber,I don't know what components would have to change to run the steel tracks.Anyone else see one with steel tracks?

BargeMonkey · July 27, 2014, 09:43:17 PM

Fecon, takiuchi had a few. If you look in the tree / residential landscaping papers you can find them from time to time.

barbender · July 27, 2014, 11:40:17 PM

I remember seeing ads for that Bobcat steel tracked u/c when it came out 4-5 years ago. If they were built right they would be just the ticket for brush mowing.

redprospector · July 28, 2014, 12:46:10 AM

I haven't tried the steel tracks on a Bobcat yet, but I have steel tracks on my Fecon.
One word of caution. If you look at any of the compact track loaders that has a "forestry package" on it, look it over real good, they tend to get used pretty hard in the woods. At least that's been my experience. ;D