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Author Topic: Tordon and T.S.I.  (Read 1896 times)

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Offline Smitty316

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Tordon and T.S.I.
« on: October 28, 2014, 10:02:07 AM »
I've been using Tordon for hack and squirt (frill cuts) to kill off undesirable species in my oak hickory forest. Since I've done this I've read about the problems of Tordon killing non target trees. Most of the work I've done was last year and so far I haven't seen any real problem. Does that mean that I'm out of the woods, or could there be long term problems from using this product. It sounds like it has a pretty long life expectancy in the soil.

Thanks, Smitty

Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Tordon and T.S.I.
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2014, 10:11:53 AM »
Tordon is broken down by soil micro-
organisms (fungi and bacteria) and sunlight.
Final breakdown products are carbon dioxide,
water and other organic materials. The break-
down rate depends on rainfall, soil temperature
and how these factors impact soil microorgan-
ism activity the main cause of breakdown.
The time required to break down 50 percent of
the active ingredient ranges from 1 week to 4
months.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Tordon and T.S.I.
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2014, 10:14:40 AM »
On second thought, with care, most should be locked up in the plant.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Offline timberlinetree

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Re: Tordon and T.S.I.
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2014, 05:36:50 AM »
We worked a lot with Tordon. Some trees roots graft to each other. That's where you can get into trouble. We use something different. Work safe!
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Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Tordon and T.S.I.
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2014, 11:02:37 AM »
The University of Arizona found out that Tordon can be quite persistant in the deeper soil horizons over 20 years ago. In an area of the experimental farm where they had treated for field bindweed many years before buffalo gourds were planted. No problem the first year. Second year they started dying. Third year most died. Seems the Tordon had been leached into the lower layers of the soil below where most crops have substantial roots. As the deep rooted gourds penetrated into the contaminated layer, they started dying. Tordon can stay around a long time under some conditions.

I have used Tordon in my woods for the control of grapevines and poison ivy. I am sure that I noted loss of tree vigor when Tordon was applied to attached poison ivy. Some of the trees also lost a strip of bark reaching and narrowing as it went up the tree. I also believe I noted a general decline in forest vigor in areas where I treated a lot of grapevines. I only use Tordon sparingly where the weed plant problems are worse than what will happen if I lose vigor for a few years.

What I am talking about here is soil uptake and not root graft flashback. Tordon is also soil active. :-\
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Tordon and T.S.I.
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2014, 12:31:23 PM »
I would recommend tryclopir over tordon.  Tryclopir does not migrate and kills only what is targeted.
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Offline luvmexfood

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Re: Tordon and T.S.I.
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2014, 06:11:59 PM »
Girdle the undesirable trees and let nature take its course. About 40 years ago we either pulled out many cherry trees and girdled the rest. Back then they were cull trees. Wish I had them now. People would even slip in and peel the bark and sell it. Money gone up in flames from the brushpiles.

Eradicated the cherries and left the good straight poplars. Oh and if it was a sourwood that had a pretty good crook in it that would make sled runners for a horse drawn sled you better leave it unharmed otherwise you caught the rath of dad.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

Offline BradMarks

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Re: Tordon and T.S.I.
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2014, 06:22:29 PM »
Question on girdling.  Lots of species will resprout from a cut stump, might they respond to girdling the same way?

Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Tordon and T.S.I.
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2014, 09:06:46 PM »
Not too much. The girdling starves the roots while they struggle to keep water going up to the leaves. Once in a while a tree will heal a bridge across the girdle and be fine. Some kinds of trees do this more than others.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Tordon and T.S.I.
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2014, 09:58:06 PM »
3 time around 6" apart 1" deep will take care of the bridging. Beech,witch hazel,bittersweet & grape vine need spray.
Ed K

Offline timberlinetree

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Re: Tordon and T.S.I.
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2014, 05:38:34 AM »
I was told to be carful with tordon around elm/beech because of root grafting can kill a near by tree by the boss. Can this happen?
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

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Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Tordon and T.S.I.
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2014, 12:16:28 PM »
I don't think they usually die unless something else is going on such as a drought or active borers. My understanding is that flashback trees recover in a year or two. I don't know if a mineral streak is generated in the wood during that time. I wouldn't be surprised, but I haven't read any studies of the effects of flashback affected trees and wood quality. It would make an interesting study. :P
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Tordon and T.S.I.
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2014, 12:52:36 PM »
I have been told that Tordon is used to 'flash' beech trees.  If you want to clear an area of beech, you cut a tree in the center of the grove and then cote the cut stump with Tordon.  It will kill all the beech trees around for some distance.  I have not personally tried this but the info came from a very knowledgeable source.
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Offline WDH

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Re: Tordon and T.S.I.
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2014, 09:16:02 PM »
I have used tordon in a hack and squirt treatment on about 100 acres, and I have had no problem with it killing non-target trees. 
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Offline chain

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Re: Tordon and T.S.I.
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2014, 09:54:17 PM »
The verdict is still out with me on Tordon, insofar as hack & squirt on hickory, I would say only 50% kill but nearly 100% kill on oaks. I now just cut down hickory poles and saplings and treat stump with Tordon.


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