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Professional Logging Certification

Started by Gadrock, November 01, 2014, 10:20:04 PM

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Gadrock

Today i finished my PLM, or Professional Logging  certification. The classes today were from 8:30 and almost continuous until 5:45. Wow my butt was sore.  At least the first day did not last so long.

So how many other states have a program similar to this?

David Gaddis

carry on
LT40 G18,   bent Cresent wrench,   broken timing light
Prentice 280 loader, Prentice 2432 skidder, Deere 643J fellerbuncher, Deere 648H skidder, Deere 650H Dozer

RunningRoot

Ohio has a Master Loggers Certification....
Taking my classes next month.....
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

lynde37avery

An old man showed me how to log. Then gave a dip of Red Man chew and bam I was certified. No but for real we got a Timber harvest license for logging. 3 hrs a year.
Detroit WHAT?

BargeMonkey

 Ny has the TLC certification, been around a while. We have to take 1 full day class per year, and keep a current first aid / cpr to stay in the program. The main guy who runs our gravel pit for us goes all over the state doing the "logger rescue" programs, he does a great job and the classes are getting better.

SwampDonkey

I think here in NB it's part of being able to harvest on public owned land, otherwise I think anyone can be a logger on private land. Mills push it because of forest certification requirements. I think first aid training is a whole separate deal. Here in NB 1 first aider is required per 3 employees, no matter what the job.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Woodboogah

NH has a voluntary Professional Loggers Program.  I do it, always learn something, keeps you current on always changing regs., and its good networking.  Plus customers like to see it I think.  Good program but as always there are people who bash it.
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

timberlinetree

Wish I could take the class but haven't been able to find time. I'm lic in Ct and Mass and what gets me is Ct won't reconize Mass forestry classes for credit, but will take infant CPR(yes had to take it to get credit in a pinch to keep my lic.) I think it is good though and always like to learn. Congratulations Gadrock! 8)
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

Family man and loving it :)

thecfarm

Gadrock,good job.
Cutting on mine own land,no certification is required. But if I was cutting on someone elses land I think I need the classes.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

deastman

Here in Maine there are two programs, Certifed  Logging Professional and then the Master Logger Certification. Just did my recertification for the CLP program on Friday. The Master Logger program is my next step, it's quite involved to apply and get thru the process.  Maine doesn't require any license to cut on private land but most of the company landowners require contractors to have at least the CLP certification.
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

Gadrock

Here in Mississippi anyone can go down to the store and purchase a saw. Most people just do not care what someone else does on their own land so long as it doen't interferre with their own stuff. But down here you are not going into any mill to sell your wood without the certification PLUS a gozillion dollars in insurance, workers comp, un-employment, etc.

david Gaddis

carry on
LT40 G18,   bent Cresent wrench,   broken timing light
Prentice 280 loader, Prentice 2432 skidder, Deere 643J fellerbuncher, Deere 648H skidder, Deere 650H Dozer

thompsontimber

NC has PRO Logger, SC has TOP Logger, VA has SHARP Logger...and on and on.  Many larger mills require a certification in order to sell, many smaller ones do not.  Most loggers of any size are certified here, but still some who are not.  Can be surprising to see who is on the list and who isn't.

Autocar

I finished my last class yesturday for Ohio. Northwest Ohio Chapter if anyone is interested.
Bill

CCC4

Quote from: Gadrock on November 02, 2014, 11:10:53 AM
Here in Mississippi anyone can go down to the store and purchase a saw. Most people just do not care what someone else does on their own land so long as it doen't interferre with their own stuff. But down here you are not going into any mill to sell your wood without the certification PLUS a gozillion dollars in insurance, workers comp, un-employment, etc.

david Gaddis

carry on

Congratulations on your certification! Here, the certification required by some mills is class work mainly focusing timber management such as thinning aspects and types of thinning, erosion control, and other related things. This certification is only mandated on the buyer and or boss when bidding on Government jobs. When you land these bigger jobs the the road work can be extensive and money making. This class helps in proper road cutting.

The class was offered by the buyers themselves, my boss' certification came through Weyerhauser and is mandatory to sell to their log yards. 

BargeMonkey

 TLC is required by the state now, 1 guy on the job has to have it. We get 5.00 per mbft more at certain mills, and the $$$ amounts from NYC are quite a bit more once you have the TLC. The classes are cheap, it lowers my insurance but alot of guys fight it.

Terry1971

Minnesota has MLEP (Minnesota logger education program) cert. CPR and other classes. $350.00 every year.

HiTech

I am not at all sure these certifications makes a logger safer or more competent. I have seen some real butcher jobs since the certifications came into play. Who are the teachers? Are they x loggers? Do they work in the woods? Have they run skidders and other equipment? One guy told me it was sort of like taking Driver Ed when you are under 18 and get a blue card so you can drive at night. I suppose someone's bother-in-law needed a job and this was the results.

thompsontimber

I can say that in the case of the PRO Logger program in NC, the program has continued to develop and make great strides over the years. Competent and engaged instruction takes place, important issues facing the logging force are addressed, and acceptance and involvement of the logging community continually increases. Still plenty of gripes about the "money racket" such training really is, but more and more pride in being certified and appreciation for what "I learned in that school." However, it still has plenty of shortcomings.
While BMP implementation and safety are covered thoroughly and repeatedly, the business training that is supposed to be part of the program is grossly lacking. Such training would be greatly beneficial to many in the logging community.  Furthermore, silviculure and harvest methods are not a part of the program. It would seem logical to me to include training, esp in regard to intermediate treatments, for the group that is implementing forestry practices on the ground.

Texas Ranger

Texas has a pro logger certification run by the Texas Forestry Association.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

HiTech

A few years ago a man stopped and introduced himself to me and wanted to use my woods to teach this logger safety. I asked him what the course was about and he told me. He needed a place to have people cut down trees for class or practice or whatever. I told him seeing how it was a state course to use state land, he wasn't going to cut my trees down just for practice. I asked him if he was a logger and he told me he was in the Military. I asked what experience he had in the logging business and he told me he took classes to teach this class. I thought to myself then that is just what we need. Perhaps now it is better but back then it didn't sound very good. Basically what it amounts to is the State covering their backsides. In the Sue Happy Age we live in they had to. Someone gets hurt logging on state lands and the lawyers are lined up at his door with $$ signs in their eyes.

CCC4

What does this "Professional Logger Certificate" actually test you on? Is it a cut test or a written paper sit in a class room all day and you are a Pro Logger? I am glad that people go and get some sort of training or try and learn something...but I personally would not cut in the same strip with a guy who proclaims he is a Pro Logger unless he has had years of falling experience. I am not trying to be rude here, I am just wondering what type of training was involved in this Pro Logger Certification class.

thompsontimber

No where have I claimed the Pro Logger course makes anyone a professional anything.  Not sure who named the program when it was initiated, but its administered through and by the NC Forestry Association.  Its basically a 3 day course with both classroom training and a "field day" in which proper cutting techniques and BMP implementation are taught and demonstrated.  A yearly continuing education component is mandated in order to maintain "Pro Logger" status.  I also would not consider myself in the presence of a professional simply because they have went through the certification process and paid their fees. 
However, that doesn't mean such training isn't beneficial and that even seasoned veterans can't learn a new and/or better way or become more professional following such training.  Its a good program, but no, it doesn't make you a pro at anything.  Keep in mind the majority of those taking this certification are "professional" loggers though...logging is their business, they do it everyday and have for years, and many feel a bit insulted that anyone is "teaching" them anything about logging.  It is mandated in order to sell to the larger mills, and the folks taking the courses aren't generally your hobbyist logger, they are full time loggers by trade.  And yes, I'm aware that doesn't make you a professional either.  There are plenty of professional loggers who are in fact Pro Logger Certified however.

thompsontimber

As for what is taught, its not at all designed to teach someone how to be a logger.  The assumption is that everyone is a logger, and the training focuses on safety, BMPs, proper stream crossings, etc.  Its also supposed to focus on the business of logging, but as mentioned previously, it really doesn't do much in this regard.  Its purpose is to help train those who are logging to do so in a better way in relation to safety and environmental impact.

Gadrock

My final day of class the other week was on business of logging, ie the business of logging. Very little on smz or bmp stuff, most on insurance, FUTA, LLC, corporations, papers that are required, Workers Comp legal stuff...and oh yeah...OVER TIME.

Another thing was legality and trucking...WOW.

I cannot wait to have my LLC's in place.

David G


carry on
LT40 G18,   bent Cresent wrench,   broken timing light
Prentice 280 loader, Prentice 2432 skidder, Deere 643J fellerbuncher, Deere 648H skidder, Deere 650H Dozer

ehp

I'm a master's and just what Thompsontimber said , in the earlier years it didnot teach anybody how to cut a tree down or how to skid it , now in the later couple years to get your masters it takes abit more time and you have to cut in front of a skidder or skid behind a cutter , it depends on what you went after as far as what masters you wanted , Some trainers will make you cut or skid for 1/2 a day for them before saying your approved . Yep its more of a pain but I feel its at least a step in the right direction compared what was in place before cause that taught you nothing on how to fall a tree other than a 12 inch on the stump perfect flat ground no lean tree but your a logger now so as soon as you go to work and your going to cut a 48 inch oak on a 35 degree slope thats leaning up hill hard and you got a 20 mile an hour wind , but some how they forgot to teach you what to do but thats a normal day for a logger

KyLogger

Kentucky Master Logger program here......it is................POINTLESS. Just a money racket. That is three full days of my life I will never get back. Plus so many credit hours needed every three years to keep it current. Required by the state forestry for all mechanized logging operations (if you skid with stock you are exempt) They could have easily covered everything we needed to know in one day. To summarize the class; Do not fall trees in water, if you do drag out tops. Keep water clean, use waterbars. Wear PPE. And of course my favorite :-X "Bore cut, always bore cut!" ALWAYS!!!!

Tom
I only work old iron because I secretly have a love affair with my service truck!

treeslayer2003

Quote from: KyLogger on November 17, 2014, 06:37:55 PM
Kentucky Master Logger program here......it is................POINTLESS. Just a money racket. That is three full days of my life I will never get back. Plus so many credit hours needed every three years to keep it current. Required by the state forestry for all mechanized logging operations (if you skid with stock you are exempt) They could have easily covered everything we needed to know in one day. To summarize the class; Do not fall trees in water, if you do drag out tops. Keep water clean, use waterbars. Wear PPE. And of course my favorite :-X "Bore cut, always bore cut!" ALWAYS!!!!

Tom
yea, its crap here. the ones that did it seem to be the ones that screw up all the time. i'm glad its not required yet. i think those of us that have held a lisence over 20 years should be exempt any way.

ehp

Ok I'm not trying to be a smart ass but of all the guys I have seen teaching these coarses the last guy I would let work for me , all the rest not a chance and 99% of these guys have never worked in the bush , they push pencils for a living but their book told them this is how its done

redprospector

In New Mexico there are no certifications, or licenses for logging or thinning. The State tried to get some safety training arranged that might give you a little bit of a discount on your insurance. It was in preparation for an attempt to require a license for working in the woods. I'm not much on classes, but decided to try it, so I registered myself and the 2 guy's that subbed to me for the class. I was notified that the class was canceled because there were not enough people enrolled to have it. This happened 4 times before I asked them to take me off of their mailing list. That was almost 5 years ago, and I haven't heard anything about it since, not even at State Forestry meetings.
Looks like not many in New Mexico are interested in being certified to work in the woods.  ;)
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SwampDonkey

Most won't unless it's required. The mills push it the most for ther forest certification and lets work progress. There is one course that is a prime example. It's the water course alteration course. It's not required, you can still make out the paperwork and wait the usual 30 days. The mills do it because that means they have an employee that can approve any work they do that day, and he submits the papers and no one is held up for approvals, work progresses right along. Woodlot owners and most of their loggers on woodlots around here don't take it, but marketing board staff do. If I was to take that course out of my own pocket, then compete with low balled rates from a marketing board, I would not get any of the work because I like to get paid. And the demand is not there either, because marketing boards don't have the staff to cover a fraction of the ground if there was a big demand.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Autocar

I finished my certification [ Master Logger ] about a month ago I am with Kylogger  it seems to me alot of it is just a smoke screen. The Northwest Ohio Chapter is new and it has been a tuff sale to get anyone interested in it. Some of the story's I hear I think Ohio should get tuffer rulers and make so called master loggers shape up. As far as what will fix the problem I asked at one of the meetings about how to handle it and was told it was up to the chapter to talk to them. I thought to myself yep that's a good idea I tell some logger to shape up and I find my skidder burned to the ground. I want to talk to some of the sawmills to see if they would give some kind of incentive to loggers that are certified. When the Ohio Forestry Association approached use about starting a chapter I thought it was a great idea, I have always felt we needed to look more at the future then to cut everything that will make a dollar and to do a better job. Are woodlots up here have been high graded for years and if we don't change our ways there won't be a future. Kylogger hit the nail on the head it only takes money out of your pocket to stay certified. How do we change things so company's are responsible and if we figure that out how do we implement it ? I looked at the program as stepping up to more a a professional step in my career but have alot of unanswered questions.
Bill

treeslayer2003

well, if it stays the way its been here i don't want to be seen any where near it.

ohwc

Just another way to get money out of people. Unfortunately we have more people making rules so they can get paid for just making rules then work going on in this country.

lopet

It's been said in a earlier thread . Sad but true, there is more money in teaching things than in actually doing them.    :( :(
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Jhenderson

The only training ( other than state regs) that I learned something at was the full course of Game of Logging. 4 full days, with weeks back home practicing in between each class,all of it saw in hand in the woods. Expensive but worth it. I learned something every day.

thompsontimber

I'm sure many of these state programs nearly mirror each other and receive the same criticisms across the board.  I could certainly echo many of the sentiments that have been shared.  However, I do believe the program here has improved leaps and bounds from its inception and does some good things, not the least of which is it enables a large number of independent loggers to voice their opinions, share their experiences, and push for more logical, sensible and practical regulations and implementation of those regulations.  The NCFA has done a good job of getting people who are field tested and vested in the logging industry in the leading roles.  They also lobby and advocate to the state legislature on behalf of the industry.  The regulatory dilemmas are real, burdensome, and expensive. At least these programs have an added benefit of providing a forum to address such issues and provide the fragmented logging ranks a more unified and effective voice.

Autocar

I agree one hundred percent with Thompsontimber it dose give the little guy to voice his or her's two cents. Ohio's master program takes three days plus a hour or two to workman's comp.Then in two years retested, I have alot of questions about the program but I feel it is a step in the right direction.
Bill

Gadrock

As a small time logger I really do not know what to think...yet. Now I am producing about 160 tons of wood a day because I cannot get all the little grimlens out of the process. Being ever mindfull of the other things that happen that cause injuries I am amazed how often the guys working for me do "less than desired" things. If I can keep them in their machines I feel completely "safe". But when working on those machine it amazed me how many"undeirable" things they can do.

Previously my life has been around many professional peeps...not here. Although savy about operating logging equip I see that I really have some smart yet dumb peeps.  Yep that makes me a bit crazy too.

More later as I am still in reall training of logging.

David G


carry on
LT40 G18,   bent Cresent wrench,   broken timing light
Prentice 280 loader, Prentice 2432 skidder, Deere 643J fellerbuncher, Deere 648H skidder, Deere 650H Dozer

HiTech

Have you ever noticed that everything we do is somehow getting regulated by the Government? They know there is money out there that they can be getting. No matter what you do there is some Government regulation. Like a marriage license, why do people need a marriage license, why not get a marriage permit? lol It won't be long and you will need a license to mow your lawn or at least to run a lawn mower. lol

David-L

I have heard that the course called "The game of Logging created by Swen Thorenson  was informative" ,I have never taken any courses but worked under the close eye of a woodsman who had of over 30 years doing it day in and out.. HE was a chain brake freak and wore them out every so often. And yes I got yelled at sometimes. I think the apprenticeship route is the best.
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

PotterBuck

I am not real familiar with other states, but here in pa the big driving force recently behind certification of loggers is the certification of forest land by FSC and chain of custody.. As a logger working on State Forests in pa you now have to either be SFI certified or supervised by someone with that certification.  I work with loggers on a daily basis, some certified and some not and I really can't generalize either group.  I have taken game of logging 1 and 2 and really enjoyed them and got a lot out of them.  Loggers I talk with have mixed emotions about the courses.  In some ways it seems to be worthwhile but like many of you have said, $$ and regulation seem to be at the root of the program, but I guess that shouldn't surprise anyone.

beenthere

QuoteThe game of Logging created by Swen Thorenson

Soren Erikkson was the name, I believe. ;)

This video explains the creation of the GOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX9Xj0faq3g
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ron Scott

Michigan's Timber Industry Celebrates 20 Years of Loggers' Education

MSU.edu (November 13) - Since 1994, logging industry professionals in Michigan have voluntarily participated in specialized "loggers' education courses." These training efforts are part of a nationwide movement aimed at creating safe working conditions for wood workers, while giving them a better understanding of forest ecology and the need for water quality protection.

Today, more than 2,500 individuals have participated in the core loggers' training programs offered in Michigan. It is the hope of the Michigan Forest Products Council that these educational efforts will continue to insure the sustainability of Michigan's forest and water resources for the next 20 years and beyond.

The E-Forester
~Ron

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