gas powered forwarder

[saymoe1984]

I'v been reading some old posts about gas powered skidders.has anyone tried it with a forwarder? I have a C5 Treefarmer with a ford 5000 diesel on its last leg. I can put a very healthy 454 in it my concern is the rpm's of the hydraulic pump. Any advice on this project would be helpful

[BargeMonkey]

 Low end torque. Big enough gas tank.  :D    a 4bt or 4.5 powertec is pretty resonable in price, i wouldnt go the gas route. We had a 2.3 ford industrial engine in our processor for the first 6000 hrs and put in a 4-239 deere, what a difference. Less rpms, less fuel, more power.

[redprospector]

Personally, I think you'd be money ahead to rebuild the diesel, or find a replacement diesel. If you stick a 454 in it you'll be messing with it until you finally get sick of it, and get rid of it. That's been my experience with it anyway.

[David-L]

I have had them in trucks. Good pullers but heavy drinkers. I would find a way to go diesel, I kinda think a 453 Turbo would have plenty of power and be better on fuel. Not sure about fit though if an older C-5.

[saymoe1984]

Thanks for the input it is a 1975ish with a cable skidder front half and I think the loader is a Prentice 120 it's got potential if I can get ahead of the worst issues.I can get a Deutz 5 cylinder supposed to run good

[barbender]

One of the Ford industrial gas engines they put in the the Treefarmers would be the easiest gas swap. I wouldn't want a big puking V-8 that wasn't made for the job.

[lopet]

A guy I am always dealing with got a  5 cyl Deutz  not too long ago on a some kinda package deal. Sold it for  $ 2500 to somebody who puts it in a screening plant. I was kinda interested to put it in my C5 but decided to do a in frame rebuilt.
They're out there, you just have to keep your eyes open. A 4 cyl may would do the trick too . The non turbo puts out about 75 hp and is probably about the same as the Ford 5000.

[mad murdock]

Deutz made a FINE engine, and real fuel mizers as well!

[Nate379]

If it's something you use just once in a while the gas engine wouldn't be too bad.

The extra fuel burned would probably never equal the cost difference in putting in a proper diesel engine.

Now if this is a daily use piece of equipment, I wouldn't even consider it.  The 454 is a pickup motor and not built real overkill like an industrial motor is.
One of the farmers I know stuck one in a potato truck.  It had a 366 in it before that lasted many years... well it died and in went a heathly 350.  Didn't have enough power to get the truck going, had to give it a push with another truck  :D
454 went in, pulled good, but he is on engine #3 or 4 in about as many years.  This is a truck that gets used for about 3 weeks a year too.

[bushmechanic]

 As an owner of a gas powered skidder , I would say don't do it. It will work but it's just not the same. No low end torque as others have said. I'm planning on building a small forwarder myself and I have a 353 sitting on the garage floor, rebuilt and ready to go for that. Another point is with a forwarder by rights you need a variable speed governor in order for the loader to work properly and those don't come on gasser's . 

[snowstorm]

there is 2 of the older ford industrial diesels for sale on uncle henrys. bolth in maine. one said rebuilt the other said runs good. one of them had the radiator and a hydraulic pump with it. one was asking around 1k the other a little more 

[coxy]

if you cant find another ford diesel I would go with a 353 there a little smaller then a 453 and as far as a 454 jmop they are junk I had 2 in a 3/4 t truck and had trouble with the valves and  gas pumps  :D

[saymoe1984]

Wow lots of input thank you everyone. This c5 had a Deutz in it befor the Ford motor. I bought a c5 cable skidder today with a running Deutz, already started the swap. The Ford motor is definitely burning antifreeze so I'll check it out hopefully it can be overhauled and put into the cable skidder later. Yes I try to run the forwarder to make a living it's been killing me with oil and coolant consumption. Now does anyone know where I can find a pdf diagram of the cold start aid system on a 1975ish Deutz 5cyl?

[Puffergas]

Keep chugging on your diesel swap but just to chime in some gas engines aren't all bad. Something slow turning and not a ton of valve over lap. My Dodge 800 (1972) has a 413 with 6000 hours on it but it does need valve seals. Have a IHC Red Diamond 450 (the one with duel exhaust manifolds) that powered my old circle saw for about 7 years. It ran off of NG or propane. You could lug it down but never could stall it. It was out of a tandem log truck. Installed an after market mechanical governor for speed control. Have a couple Farmall M's one is a late 40's and the other is an early 50's and both run sweet and easy on fuel. I think top RPM for them is about 1400.

[chester_tree _farmah]

Wow lots of input thank you everyone. This c5 had a Deutz in it befor the Ford motor. I bought a c5 cable skidder today with a running Deutz, already started the swap. The Ford motor is definitely burning antifreeze so I'll check it out hopefully it can be overhauled and put into the cable skidder later. Yes I try to run the forwarder to make a living it's been killing me with oil and coolant consumption. Now does anyone know where I can find a pdf diagram of the cold start aid system on a 1975ish Deutz 5cyl?

Good choice. I would post that start aide question as a separate post. There r Deutz folks in here passing through now and than.

[Nate379]

If you are talking about the flame heater, I've been told by many it's not worth the $$.  One of my friends has a FEL with the Doouchte ( :D) motor and he ended up setting up a block heater of some sorts and just plugs in to a gen set a bit before needing to fire it up.

Wow lots of input thank you everyone. This c5 had a Deutz in it befor the Ford motor. I bought a c5 cable skidder today with a running Deutz, already started the swap. The Ford motor is definitely burning antifreeze so I'll check it out hopefully it can be overhauled and put into the cable skidder later. Yes I try to run the forwarder to make a living it's been killing me with oil and coolant consumption. Now does anyone know where I can find a pdf diagram of the cold start aid system on a 1975ish Deutz 5cyl?

)

[lopet]

I have a C5 with a 5 cyl Deutz ( well, it's still parked ) and I have several Deutz tractors with the same series engine. They all have different set ups . Some have a little flame thing in the air intake, or a heating coil in the cooling air tunnel to warm up the cylinders. Others again have a heating coil in the oil pan to warm up the oil and my old big one has a ether can strapped to the block and when you think you need it, you just plug in the wire and when you turn the key it sprays a sniff of it in the intake.
So  I am not sure what set up you're talking about.
Btw  are you sure the Deutz has the same bolt pattern on the flywheel housing as the Ford ?
Good luck with your swap and let us know how it goes.

[lopet]

Forgot to ask.    Is it a 4 or a 5 cylinder ?

[David-L]

When I had a TJ225 with a 5L912 Duetz the starting aid was not hooked up. It is designed to warm the air up and have a squirt of fuel splash and explode to help that baby run. Down to about 15 degrees mine would start with good batteries if it had been run and not been sitting for days. My preheat system was a chunk of muffler hose you see in the old school garages. Park the skidder as to get at it with your vehicle in the morning and run the exhaust at the jugs on it for fifteen or twenty and mine always started. That motor had so much torque it could be at high idle and be pulling a hitch. I regret selling it sometimes.

                         David l

[saymoe1984]

Wow!! the exhaust on the jugs is an AWESOME! idea thank you everyone for the support the swap is done. I did it in two days outside in some really crapy Michigan weather. The 5cyl Deutz hadn't been run in like two years. We got fresh fuel to the injector pump  (did not bleed the injectors) it cranked about 5 times and took right off. I am amazed at how well this motor runs. I worked it part of the day Tuesday,can't believe the power. Worked it all day Wednesday. This is the turning point I can make money putting wood up now. Even the loader is much better because the Ford motor was so tired it lugged down real bad  just using the hydraulics. Those who celibrate thanks giving have a great one I have been roasting our 50lb home raised Tom since 10 pm last night

[lopet]

Glad it's working out for you and let's hope you get many more years out of it.

[chester_tree _farmah]

Nice!

[saymoe1984]

Been running every day since the swap except Thursday. Can't believe the difference  it hasn't used a drop of oil. Old motor used a half gallon or more per   day. And it does start very well in the cold .  Now I should be able to get the forwarder tip top shape, and start fixing on the cable skidder I took the Deutz out of. It is mostly complete just not in one piece

[chester_tree _farmah]

What r u going to put back in the skidder? Find another Duetz?

[Reddog]

If trying to use a gas engine in a place of a diesel. Look at changing the cam to one for an industrial generator application. Most of those make peak torque and HP at around 3600rpm to maintain the right Hz.
I know cams were made for the GM454 and Ford460 in this configuration.

The GM366 and the Ford 330 med duty truck motors have gotten as $ as diesels now it seems.