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Author Topic: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?  (Read 21538 times)

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Offline Joe Hillmann

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2014, 04:28:12 PM »
A true 10 hp electric motor will draw 32 amps.  Maybe more at start up.  Is your electric service up to that much power draw?  If you have 100 or 200 amp service it probably wont be an issue.  40 or 60 amp would be questionable depending on what else you are running.  And 20 or 30 amp (there are still some homes in this area with that small of a service) you wouldn't be able to run it, or if you did you would be taking a risk.

It would also depend on where you plan to cut.  If only at your place within reach of electric won't be a problem but if you do any mobile sawing having an electric motor will really limit your possibilities.

Also how dependable is your electric company.  Some places my have a couple hours with out power in a year.  Other places may be without power for the better part of the day every time the wind picks up a bit.

With that said, electric would probably be cheaper (depending on rates) and much less maintenance than gas powered.

Offline Joe Hillmann

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2014, 04:42:16 PM »

Mine is hooked to a hydraulic pump. It has to be pretty cold for hyd oil to be a problem.

I just want to point out that "pretty cold" is relative to your location.  Up here we would say it takes a while for the hydraulic fluid warm up enough to work.

Offline Larry

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2014, 07:17:46 PM »
I calculated the cost of running.  Its a rough estimate because of a lot of variables.  36 to 99 cents per hour.  36 cents is when the motor is just idling and 99 cents is when the motor is at full load right before it stalls.  A good average I think would be 50 cents an hour.  The cost will go up when they switch us back to the summer electric rate.

Of course you will have maintenance expense.  1/2 shot of grease per zerk once a year. ;D
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Offline hackberry jake

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2014, 07:51:08 PM »
My mill is definately not going to be growing legs anytime soon. And the fluid in the pump makes a big difference on starting a pump. I have a 2hp motor on my 2gpm pump and when it is cold it doesnt start. I just have that cheap "tractor hydraulc fluid" in it though and it gets really thick when its cold. I need to splurge on a thinner fluid.
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2014, 08:33:08 PM »
ATF would probably have a better working range.

I like electric motors. I'd go for it, if you have the service.
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Offline dgdrls

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2014, 08:52:48 PM »
A true 10 hp electric motor will draw 32 amps.  Maybe more at start up.  Is your electric service up to that much power draw?  If you have 100 or 200 amp service it probably wont be an issue.  40 or 60 amp would be questionable depending on what else you are running.  And 20 or 30 amp (there are still some homes in this area with that small of a service) you wouldn't be able to run it, or if you did you would be taking a risk.

It would also depend on where you plan to cut.  If only at your place within reach of electric won't be a problem but if you do any mobile sawing having an electric motor will really limit your possibilities.

Also how dependable is your electric company.  Some places my have a couple hours with out power in a year.  Other places may be without power for the better part of the day every time the wind picks up a bit.

With that said, electric would probably be cheaper (depending on rates) and much less maintenance than gas powered.

I assume your talking about a 3 phase motor here,

DGDrls

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2014, 09:11:50 PM »
10 hp single phase is 44 FLA.
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Offline Swatson

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2014, 10:02:11 PM »
One issue you may run into with electric is they are designed to run at a set speed.  They like that speed and they run most efficiently at that speed.  Two pole run at 3600 rpm, four poles at 1800 etc (actual rpm will be lower due to drag so you see a lot of 1725 rpm and so forth).  The rpm are tied directly to the hertz of the incoming power.  60 hertz coming in from the pole is equal to 3600 pulses per minute that is why motor rpms are always a root of this number with drag factored in.

With a gas engine when you bite into a log you can hear the motor lug down under load so you can either slow down your feed rate and/or increase the throttle.  With electric the motor it does not like to lug because it bases its speed on how many hertz is coming in.  The result will be since the magnetic fields inside the motor are not lining up where they should the amp draw will increase as the motor compensates.  If the motor cannot get back up to its ideal speed, heat starts to be created instead of motion.

That was way longer than i intended it to be...long story short is it is not always easy to hear the motor start to drag when you are sawing through a log so what I did when I was using electric is to install an amp meter.  It fluctuates quite a bit more than you think it would but it can give you a good idea of where the motor is happy. 

Then again mine was only 5 hp so your ten may not be all that finicky.
I cant figure out which one I like better: working with wood or making the tools to work with wood.

Offline Joe Hillmann

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2014, 10:14:39 PM »
A true 10 hp electric motor will draw 32 amps.  Maybe more at start up.  Is your electric service up to that much power draw?  If you have 100 or 200 amp service it probably wont be an issue.  40 or 60 amp would be questionable depending on what else you are running.  And 20 or 30 amp (there are still some homes in this area with that small of a service) you wouldn't be able to run it, or if you did you would be taking a risk.

It would also depend on where you plan to cut.  If only at your place within reach of electric won't be a problem but if you do any mobile sawing having an electric motor will really limit your possibilities.

Also how dependable is your electric company.  Some places my have a couple hours with out power in a year.  Other places may be without power for the better part of the day every time the wind picks up a bit.

With that said, electric would probably be cheaper (depending on rates) and much less maintenance than gas powered.

I assume your talking about a 3 phase motor here,

DGDrls


No, that would be 10 hp on 230.  Ten hp would be about 7456 watts.  Divide that by 230 volts and you get about 32 1/2 amps.

I say true because many motors are rated at the highest power they can draw just as they stall out.  In actually running it is much lower.

Offline dgdrls

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2014, 08:25:17 AM »
A true 10 hp electric motor will draw 32 amps.  Maybe more at start up.  Is your electric service up to that much power draw?  If you have 100 or 200 amp service it probably wont be an issue.  40 or 60 amp would be questionable depending on what else you are running.  And 20 or 30 amp (there are still some homes in this area with that small of a service) you wouldn't be able to run it, or if you did you would be taking a risk.

It would also depend on where you plan to cut.  If only at your place within reach of electric won't be a problem but if you do any mobile sawing having an electric motor will really limit your possibilities.

Also how dependable is your electric company.  Some places my have a couple hours with out power in a year.  Other places may be without power for the better part of the day every time the wind picks up a bit.

With that said, electric would probably be cheaper (depending on rates) and much less maintenance than gas powered.

I assume your talking about a 3 phase motor here,

DGDrls


No, that would be 10 hp on 230.  Ten hp would be about 7456 watts.  Divide that by 230 volts and you get about 32 1/2 amps.

I say true because many motors are rated at the highest power they can draw just as they stall out.  In actually running it is much lower.

A true 10 hp electric motor will draw 32 amps.  Maybe more at start up.  Is your electric service up to that much power draw?  If you have 100 or 200 amp service it probably wont be an issue.  40 or 60 amp would be questionable depending on what else you are running.  And 20 or 30 amp (there are still some homes in this area with that small of a service) you wouldn't be able to run it, or if you did you would be taking a risk.

It would also depend on where you plan to cut.  If only at your place within reach of electric won't be a problem but if you do any mobile sawing having an electric motor will really limit your possibilities.

Also how dependable is your electric company.  Some places my have a couple hours with out power in a year.  Other places may be without power for the better part of the day every time the wind picks up a bit.

With that said, electric would probably be cheaper (depending on rates) and much less maintenance than gas powered.

I assume your talking about a 3 phase motor here,

DGDrls


No, that would be 10 hp on 230.  Ten hp would be about 7456 watts.  Divide that by 230 volts and you get about 32 1/2 amps.

I say true because many motors are rated at the highest power they can draw just as they stall out.  In actually running it is much lower.

Thank-you Joe, agreed.   
10 hp single phase is 44 FLA.

So say 44 full load amps,  (FLA)  would you be looking at approximately a 50 Amp circuit to drive the motor? 

Thanks guys, 

DGDrls

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2014, 08:34:18 AM »
Believe it or not I used to own a 50hp single phase motor it weighed about a half ton. It ran a cider mill for a old german neighbor. When I looked at the amp draw I traded that sucker for ether a steam engine or milling machine I forget now. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2014, 10:36:33 AM »
10 hp single phase is 44 FLA.

So say 44 full load amps,  (FLA)  would you be looking at approximately a 50 Amp circuit to drive the motor? 

Thanks guys, 

DGDrls

[/quote]

I don't know what you would need for a circuit breaker, that would probably depend on the inrush. Starting a 10 HP motor without a load would probably not have a huge inrush. The 7.5 HP we had on the sawdust blower had a 140 amp inrush. I don't recall the size of the breaker, 50 amp, maybe.
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Offline customsawyer

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2014, 04:02:33 PM »
Jake I run ATF and thin tractor hyd. fluid blend.  In your setup I would run strait ATF.
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Offline customsawyer

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2014, 04:03:38 PM »
Felt like I was talking to myself.  :D
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2014, 04:07:55 PM »
I get that feeling sometimes. There are a lot of Daves out there. Although some of them have taken on the personality of goats. :D
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Offline POSTON WIDEHEAD

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2014, 04:15:31 PM »
Felt like I was talking to myself.  :D

What else is new?  :D
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Offline pineywoods

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2014, 08:47:32 PM »
Jake, I assume you are talking about the hydraulics for pineywoods turner/clamp. Mine only has a 1 hp motor and it definitely don't like cold. I added a quart of atf mixed in with the tractor hydraulic oil, works ok down to about 30 degrees..I quit sawing before it gets that cold  ;D
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Offline hackberry jake

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Re: 10hp electric or 20hp gas?
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2014, 08:59:08 AM »
I have a lot of atf sitting around the shop. Ill have to try that out.
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